January 15, 2015

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January 15, 2015

Postby ArkieTech » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:55 pm

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |54.|7.9|.6.|
 |...|...|...|
 |...|1..|.2.|
 |---+---+---|
 |7..|...|..6|
 |...|.3.|2..|
 |.3.|..8|.9.|
 |---+---+---|
 |..8|34.|..1|
 |.2.|..1|8..|
 |36.|...|7..|
 *-----------*



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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:02 am

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------*
 | 5    4    3    | 7    2    9    | 1    6    8    |
 | 2    1    69   | 4    8    36   | 59   7    35   |
 | 68   89   7    | 1    5    36   | 49   2    34   |
 *----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 7   c59   2-9  |b259  1    4    | 3    8    6    |
 | 68  a589 a469  | 59   3    7    | 2    1    45   |
 | 1    3    24   | 25   6    8    | 45   9    7    |
 *----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 9    7    8    | 3    4    2    | 6    5    1    |
 | 4    2    5    | 6    7    1    | 8    3    9    |
 | 3    6    1    | 8    9    5    | 7    4    2    |
 *--------------------------------------------------*


BUG+3: (9)r5c23 = (5)r4c4 - (5=9)r4c2 => -9 r4c3 ; stte

Or, (9=45)r26c7 - (4=29)r46c3 => -9 r2c3 ; stte
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby bat999 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:52 am

Code: Select all
.---------------.-------------.-------------.
| 5   4    3    | 7    2  9   | 1    6  8   |
| 2   1    b69  | 4    8  a36 | 9-5  7  B35 |
| 68  89   7    | 1    5  36  | 49   2  34  |
:---------------+-------------+-------------:
| 7   59   c29  | 259  1  4   | 3   8  6    |
| 68  589  469  | 59   3  7   | 2   1  45   |
| 1   3    X24  | 25   6  8   | A45  9  7   |
:---------------+-------------+-------------:
| 9   7    8    | 3    4  2   | 6   5  1    |
| 4   2    5    | 6    7  1   | 8   3  9    |
| 3   6    1    | 8    9  5   | 7   4  2    |
'---------------'-------------'-------------'

A=r6c7, B=r2c9, X=r6c3
A=4->X=2
B=3->X=4
=> A or B is 5, r2c7<>5 ; stte
8-)
8-)
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:23 am

bat999 wrote:
Code: Select all
.---------------.-------------.-------------.
| 5   4    3    | 7    2  9   | 1    6  8   |
| 2   1    b69  | 4    8  a36 | 9-5  7  B35 |
| 68  89   7    | 1    5  36  | 49   2  34  |
:---------------+-------------+-------------:
| 7   59   c29  | 259  1  4   | 3   8  6    |
| 68  589  469  | 59   3  7   | 2   1  45   |
| 1   3    X24  | 25   6  8   | A45  9  7   |
:---------------+-------------+-------------:
| 9   7    8    | 3    4  2   | 6   5  1    |
| 4   2    5    | 6    7  1   | 8   3  9    |
| 3   6    1    | 8    9  5   | 7   4  2    |
'---------------'-------------'-------------'

A=r6c7, B=r2c9, X=r6c3
A=4->X=2
B=3->X=4
=> A or B is 5, r2c7<>5 ; stte
8-)


Bat, it seems to me that it would be clearer if you wrote:

A=r6c7, B=r2c9, X=r6c3
X=4->A=5
X=2->B=5
=> A or B is 5, r2c7<>5 ; stte
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby bat999 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:36 am

SteveG48 wrote:X=4->A=5
X=2->B=5

No, that's not correct at all. :o

There's a very long discussion here ---> http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/not-about-almost-locked-sets-t32263.html
And my 'informal' notes here ---> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5w7yWHgX
8-)
8-)
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby daj95376 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:51 am

I don't see a BUG+3, but the UR is obvious.

Code: Select all
 +-----------------------------------------------------+
 |  5    4    3    |  7    2    9    |  1    6    8    |
 |  2    1    69   |  4    8    36   |  59   7    35   |
 |  68   89   7    |  1    5    36   |  49   2    34   |
 |-----------------+-----------------+-----------------|
 |  7   *59   29   | *59+2 1    4    |  3    8    6    |
 |  68  *59+8 469  | *59   3    7    |  2    1    45   |
 |  1    3    24   |  25   6    8    |  45   9    7    |
 |-----------------+-----------------+-----------------|
 |  9    7    8    |  3    4    2    |  6    5    1    |
 |  4    2    5    |  6    7    1    |  8    3    9    |
 |  3    6    1    |  8    9    5    |  7    4    2    |
 +-----------------------------------------------------+
 # 23 eliminations remain

 Discontinuous loop: -8r5c2 -> 2r4c4 -> 59r4c23 -> 8r5c2

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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby Leren » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:54 am

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 5     4     3      | 7     2     9      | 1     6     8      |
| 2     1    b69     | 4     8     36     | 59    7     35     |
| 68   c89    7      | 1     5     36     |d49    2     34     |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 7     59   a29     | 259   1     4      | 3     8     6      |
| 68    589   469    | 59    3     7      | 2     1     45     |
| 1     3    f4-2    | 25    6     8      |e45    9     7      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 9     7     8      | 3     4     2      | 6     5     1      |
| 4     2     5      | 6     7     1      | 8     3     9      |
| 3     6     1      | 8     9     5      | 7     4     2      |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

(2=9) r4c3 - r2c3 = r3c2 - (9=4) r3c7 - r6c7 = (4) r6c3 => - 2 r6c3; stte

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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby daj95376 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:06 am

bat999 wrote:
SteveG48 wrote:X=4->A=5
X=2->B=5

No, that's not correct at all. :o

SteveG48 is showing you that there's a simpler way to reach your conclusion using the same cells.

You just need to start at X and derive that one of A/B must be 5.

This approach has been around for a long time!

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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby pjb » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:00 am

Code: Select all
 5       4       3      | 7      2      9      | 1      6      8     
 2       1       69     | 4      8      36     | 59     7      35     
 68      89      7      | 1      5      36     | 49     2      34     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 7      *59      29     |*259    1      4      | 3      8      6     
 68     *589     469    |*59     3      7      | 2      1      45     
 1       3       24     | 25     6      8      | 45     9      7     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 9       7       8      | 3      4      2      | 6      5      1     
 4       2       5      | 6      7      1      | 8      3      9     
 3       6       1      | 8      9      5      | 7      4      2     


Both r4c2=9 and r5c2=9 (via r6c4=2) lead to a DP; so -9 r45c2; stte

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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby gurth » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:19 am

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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby Leren » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:45 am

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 5     4     3      | 7     2     9      | 1     6     8      |
| 2     1     69     | 4     8     36     | 59    7     35     |
| 68    89    7      | 1     5     36     | 49    2     34     |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 7    *59    29     |*59+2  1     4      | 3     8     6      |
| 68   *59+8  469    |*59    3     7      | 2     1     45     |
| 1     3     24     | 25    6     8      | 45    9     7      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 9     7     8      | 3     4     2      | 6     5     1      |
| 4     2     5      | 6     7     1      | 8     3     9      |
| 3     6     1      | 8     9     5      | 7     4     2      |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

My take on the 59 DP r45c24 is:

9 r4c2 => 5 r5c2 (2 5's in Col2); 5 r4c4 (2 5's in Row 4) => 9 r5c4 : DP => - 9 r4c2;

5 r4c4 => 9 r4c2, r5c4 => 5 r5c2 (2 5's in Col 2)                   : DP => - 5 r4c4;

5 r5c2 => 9 r4c2, r5c4 => 5 r4c4 (2 5's in Row 4)                   : DP => - 5 r5c2;

9 r5c2 => 5 r4c2, r5c4 => 9 r4c4 (2 9's in Col 4)                   : DP => - 9 r5c2; stte

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Last edited by Leren on Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby bat999 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:26 am

SteveG48 wrote:... it seems to me that it would be clearer...

OK SteveG48
"No, that's not correct at all" was too mean. :oops:
Shooting from the hip. :roll:

A=4->X=2
B=3->X=4
Seems to set the conditions then investigate the observed incompatible result.

X=4->A=5
X=2->B=5
Seems to observe an incompatible result then investigate the set conditions.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. :lol:
8-)
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby Ngisa » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:12 pm

Code: Select all
+------------+----------+---------+
| 5  4   3   | 7   2 9  | 1  6 8  |
| 2  1   6-9  | 4   8 36 | a59 7 35 |
| 68 89  7   | 1   5 36 | 49 2 34 |
+------------+----------+---------+
| 7  59  d29  | 259 1 4  | 3  8 6  |
| 68 589 469 | 59  3 7  | 2  1 45 |
| 1  3   c24  | 25  6 8  | b45 9 7  |
+------------+----------+---------+
| 9  7   8   | 3   4 2  | 6  5 1  |
| 4  2   5   | 6   7 1  | 8  3 9  |
| 3  6   1   | 8   9 5  | 7  4 2  |
+------------+----------+---------+
We should not forget the XY-Chain
(9=5)r2c7-(5=4)r6c7-(4=2)r6c3-(2=9)r4c3 => -9r2c3; stte.
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:31 pm

bat999 wrote: X=4->A=5
X=2->B=5
Seems to observe an incompatible result then investigate the set conditions.


The thrust of my comment was that your very next sentence says that either A or B must be 5, leading to your conclusion. The way I wrote it emphasizes that- either value in X makes either A or B a 5.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. :lol:


So true. :)
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Re: January 15, 2015

Postby SteveG48 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:40 pm

daj95376 wrote:I don't see a BUG+3, but the UR is obvious.


Granted that BUG+3 isn't needed on this simple puzzle, it's just what struck me first. You don't agree that we start with 3 tri-valued cells and that if neither r5c2 nor r5c3 is 9, then we're reduced to BUG+1 and r4c4 must be 5?
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