The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **daj95376** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:55 am

While sorting through an old collection of puzzles. I ran into this one. 14 eliminations on <9> ... all accountable by coloring (in general). Is there a fish?

Code: Select all: ..63....425...7183...5......2.46..1.4.......5.1..75.3......4...3417...288....17.. *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 179 78-9 6 | 3 128-9 289 | 25-9 579 4 | | 2 5 49 | 6 49 7 | 1 8 3 | | 179 378-9 3478-9 | 5 1248-9 289 | 26-9 679 679 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 5 2 378-9 | 4 6 389 | 89 1 79 | | 4 3789 378-9 | 1 28-9 2389 | 68-9 679 5 | | 6 1 89 | 89 7 5 | 4 3 2 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 79 67-9 2 | 89 58-9 4 | 3 56-9 1 | | 3 4 1 | 7 59 6 | 59 2 8 | | 8 69 5 | 2 3 1 | 7 4 69 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

Code: Select all: *-----------------------------------------* | 9 -9 . | . -9 9 | -9 9 . | | . . 9 | . 9 . | . . . | | 9 -9 -9 | . -9 9 | -9 9 9 | |-------------+-------------+-------------| | . . -9 | . . 9 | 9 . 9 | | . 9 -9 | . -9 9 | -9 9 . | | . . 9 | 9 . . | . . . | |-------------+-------------+-------------| | 9 -9 . | 9 -9 . | . -9 . | | . . . | . 9 . | 9 . . | | . 9 . | . . . | . . 9 | *-----------------------------------------*

by **udosuk** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:04 am

SS reveals a simple turbot fish for eliminating the 9 in r5c5:

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 179 789 6 | 3 1289 289 | 259 579 4 | | 2 5 *49 | 6 *49 7 | 1 8 3 | | 179 3789 34789 | 5 12489 289 | 269 679 679 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 5 2 3789 | 4 6 389 | 89 1 79 | | 4 3789 3789 | 1 -289 2389 | 689 679 5 | | 6 1 *89 |*89 7 5 | 4 3 2 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 79 679 2 | 89 589 4 | 3 569 1 | | 3 4 1 | 7 59 6 | 59 2 8 | | 8 69 5 | 2 3 1 | 7 4 69 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

But nothing else... There're probably some finned/sashimi stuffs for the other 9s...

PS:
Is this a franken swordfish or something like that?

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 179 789 6 | 3 -1289 289 | 259 579 4 | | 2 5 #49 | 6 #49 7 | 1 8 3 | | 179 3789 -34789 | 5 -12489 289 | 269 679 679 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 5 2 -3789 | 4 6 389 | 89 1 79 | | 4 3789 -3789 | 1 28 2389 | 689 679 5 | | 6 1 #89 |#89 7 5 | 4 3 2 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 79 679 2 |#89 #589 4 | 3 569 1 | | 3 4 1 | 7 #59 6 | 59 2 8 | | 8 69 5 | 2 3 1 | 7 4 69 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

by **wapati** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:03 pm

I see a finned sashimi jellyfish eliminating the 9 in r5c5 but the Turbot/Skyscraper is much easier to find.

Code: Select all: *-----------------------------------------* | *9 9 . | . 9 *9 | 9 *9 . | | . . 9 | . 9 . | . . . | | *9 9 9 | . 9 *9 | 9 *9 9 | |-------------+-------------+-------------| | . . 9 | . . *9 | 9 . 9 | | . 9 9 | . -9 *9 | 9 *9 . | | . . 9 | *9 . . | . . . | |-------------+-------------+-------------| | *9 9 . | *9 9 . | . *9 . | | . . . | . 9 . | 9 . . | | . 9 . | . . . | . . 9 | *-----------------------------------------*

by **ronk** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:08 pm

daj95376 wrote:While sorting through an old collection of puzzles. I ran into this one. 14 eliminations on <9> ... all accountable by coloring (in general). Is there a fish?

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------* | 9 -9 . | . -9 9 | -9 9 . | | . . 9 | . 9 . | . . . | | 9 -9 -9 | . -9 9 | -9 9 9 | |-------------+-------------+-------------| | . . -9 | . . 9 | 9 . 9 | | . 9 -9 | . -9 9 | -9 9 . | | . . 9 | 9 . . | . . . | |-------------+-------------+-------------| | 9 -9 . | 9 -9 . | . -9 . | | . . . | . 9 . | 9 . . | | . 9 . | . . . | . . 9 | *-----------------------------------------*

Two fish steps get 11 of those 14 eliminations. I didn't try very hard to either 1) find fish for the other three eliminations or 2) find a smaller fish to replace the whale.

Code: Select all: 9 9 . | . -9 *9 | 9 9 . . . *9 | . *9 . | . . . 9 9 -9 | . -9 *9 | 9 9 9 ------------+-------------+------------ . . -9 | . . *9 | 9 . 9 . 9 -9 | . -9 *9 | 9 9 . . . *9 | *9 . . | . . . ------------+-------------+------------ 9 9 . | 9 9 . | . 9 . . . . | . 9 . | 9 . . . 9 . | . . . | . . 9 mutant swordfish r26c6\c3b25 *9 -9 . | . . *9 | 9 9 . . . *9 | . *9 . | . . . *9 -9 . | . . *9 | 9 9 9 ------------+-------------+------------ . . 9 | . . *9 | 9 . 9 . 9 9 | . . *9 | 9 9 . . . 9 | *9 . . | . . . ------------+-------------+------------ *9 -9 . | *9 -9 . | . -9 . . . . | . *9 . | *9 . . . *9 . | . . . | . . *9 mutant whale r289c146\b125789

by **daj95376** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:06 pm

I stared at it for some time and couldn't get past the SS eliminaton in r5c5. Thanks everyone for input ... including any additional reviews of this pattern.

by **daj95376** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:05 am

I have no idea if a fish exists in here, but I'd start by investigating a way to get [r7c78]<>8. The resulting Locked Candidate (1) would then take care of the three other eliminations.

Code: Select all: # (8) [r7c5]=[r3c5]-[r1c46]=[r1c78]-[r23c9]=[r8c9]-([r7c78],[r8c46]) *--------------------------------------------------* | . . . | 8 . 8 | 8 8 . | | 8 . 8 | . . 8 | . . 8 | | 8 8 8 | . 8 . | 8 . 8 | |----------------+----------------+----------------| | . 8 8 | . . 8 | . . . | | . 8 . | 8 . 8 | . 8 . | | . . . | 8 . . | 8 8 . | |----------------+----------------+----------------| | 8 . 8 | 8 8 . | -8 -8 . | | -8 . . | -8 . -8 | 8 . 8 | | 8 8 8 | 8 . 8 | . . . | *--------------------------------------------------*

by **ronk** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:41 pm

daj95376 wrote:I have no idea if a fish exists in here, but I'd start by investigating a way to get [r7c78]<>8.

Except for r7c5, the candidates in the strong links of r1, c5 and c9 are covered by boxes 2, 3 and 9.

Code: Select all: . . . | *8 . *8 | *8 *8 . 8 . 8 | . . 8 | . . *8 8 8 8 | . *8 . | 8 . *8 -----------+-----------+---------- . 8 8 | . . 8 | . . . . 8 . | 8 . 8 | . 8 . . . . | 8 . . | 8 8 . -----------+-----------+---------- 8 . 8 | 8 #8 . | -8 -8 . -8 . . | -8 . -8 | 8 . *8 8 8 8 | 8 . 8 | . . . sashimi mutant swordfish r1c59\b239 plus fin r7c5, implies r7c78<>8

daj95376 wrote:I stared at it for some time and couldn't get past the SS eliminaton in r5c5.

I missed that reply earlier. What did you mean?

by **daj95376** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:46 pm

ronk wrote:
daj95376 wrote:I stared at it for some time and couldn't get past the SS eliminaton in r5c5.

I missed that reply earlier. What did you mean?

I was just commenting on

udosuk wrote:SS reveals a simple turbot fish for eliminating the 9 in r5c5:

Thanks for catching the fish. My chain notation wasn't *technically* accurate because I merged (left-to-right) Implication Chain logic with (bi-directional) Inference Chain notation. It gives a better picture of the *flow*. (more on chains and notation in a new thread that I will start soon)

by **ronk** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:11 pm

daj95376 wrote:My chain notation wasn't *technically* accurate because I merged (left-to-right) Implication Chain logic with (bi-directional) Inference Chain notation.

Huh? Double implication chains are inherently expressible as a bidirectional nice loop.

by **daj95376** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:35 am

Some fish I could find. Others I couldn't. Enjoy!

Code: Select all: 9.1..2.4........2...4..53.9...5.7..365..9..717..6.1...5.74..8...9........1.7..5.6 # 1 69..1....18.7.5.6...74.....4.95....6....9....8....24.1.....76...6.2.3.48....4..15 # 9 ...29..6.49..3...2..6.....5.596...43.4.....9.31...965.7.....4..9...4..27.2..68... # 14 71.6.89...3...2...9......7......4..8..5.6.2..6..9......6......4...8...1...75.1.89 # 18 .619...4.2....76.3..4...2..6...9..8..8..7..3..4..5...6..6...3..9.78....2.2...349. # 23

by **daj95376** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:00 am

I resorted to single-digit chains. Maybe you'll have better luck.

Code: Select all: *-----------------------* | . 2 . | . . . | . . . | | . 6 8 | . 7 . | 5 . 2 | | 4 . . | . . . | . 7 8 | |-------+-------+-------| | . 3 . | 2 . 4 | . . 5 | | 6 8 . | . 5 . | . 9 4 | | 5 . . | 8 . 9 | . 6 . | |-------+-------+-------| | 2 7 . | . . . | . . 9 | | 9 . 6 | . 4 . | 8 5 . | | . . . | . . . | . 2 . | *-----------------------*

by **daj95376** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:56 pm

I need to know if there's a Franken Swordfish here. TIA!!!

Code: Select all: # finned X-Wing r25/c18 w/fin cell [r5c9] => [r4 c8]<>4 # # Kraken X-Wing r25/c18 w/remote cell [r5c9] => [r2c8]=4 => [r49c8]<>4 # # Franken Swordfish r25b3/??? => [ ??? ]<>4 *-----------------------------------* | . 4 4 | . . . | . . ^4 | | *4 . . | . . . | . *4 . | | . . . | . 4 . | . . . | |-----------+-----------+-----------| | . 4 . | 4 . . | 4 -4 . | | *4 . . | . . . | . *4 #4 | | . . 4 | 4 . . | . . 4 | |-----------+-----------+-----------| | 4 4 4 | . . . | 4 . . | | . . . | . . 4 | . . . | | 4 . . | . . . | 4 -4 . | *-----------------------------------*

by **ronk** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:22 pm

daj95376 wrote:I need to know if there's a Franken Swordfish here.
Code: Select all
# Franken Swordfish r25b3/??? => [ ??? ]<>4 *-----------------------------------* | . 4 4 | . . . | . . ^4 | | *4 . . | . . . | . *4 . | | . . . | . 4 . | . . . | |-----------+-----------+-----------| | . 4 . | 4 . . | 4 -4 . | | *4 . . | . . . | . *4 #4 | | . . 4 | 4 . . | . . 4 | |-----------+-----------+-----------| | 4 4 4 | . . . | 4 . . | | . . . | . . 4 | . . . | | 4 . . | . . . | 4 -4 . | *-----------------------------------*

That's a pretty good start. Just treat r2c8 -- in the intersection of base sectors r2 and b3 -- as a fin, and you've got it.

Code: Select all: . 4 4 | . . . | . . *4 *4 . . | . . . | . @4 . . . . | . 4 . | . . . ----------+-----------+---------- . 4 . | 4 . . | 4 -4 . *4 . . | . . . | . *4 *4 . . 4 | 4 . . | . . 4 ----------+-----------+---------- 4 4 4 | . . . | 4 . . . . . | . . 4 | . . . 4 . . | . . . | 4 -4 . sashimi franken swordfish r25b3\c189 plus endo-fin r2c8, implies r49c8<>4

The candidates within base sectors (units) r2, r5 and b3 are also within cover sectors c1, c8 and c9. Any candidate within the intersection of two base sectors must be treated as a fin, and because it is within an intersection, it is termed an "endo-fin cell" or simply "endo-fin."

In this case, r2c8 is in the intersection of r2 and b3. If r2c8<>4, all candidates in the cover sectors but not also in the base sectors would be eliminated (r1346789c1<>4 and r46789c89<>4). If r2c8=4, candidates in r46789c8 would still be eliminated.

by **daj95376** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:29 am

Code: Select all: 6....43..4..1...8..2..6....2...3..4.1.64782.3.3..2...8....5..3..6...3..2..28....1 #G028 .9.......2.8.4...745....8.2....7...37.38625.96...9....5.6....289...8.3.5.......9. #G039 ....2..5.2......37..19.7..2.2.5.46.37.3.6.5.96.53.1.7.5..4.97..91......5.7..5.... #G046 ....2...5..9..5186..6...32...8.56..15.......83..28.6...13...5..6753..8..8...1.... #G048 ......4......7..8.45..91..774.95.2....21.49....1.87.549..76..42.7..4......4...... #G051 1...23495.39.....6..6....2...8.56..1....3....3..28.6...1....5..6.....81.82451...3 #G055 .9.58..2..7...2...2...7...6.286....7....2....7....598.9...3...8...8...6..3..46.7. #G059 6...83724......8.....47.3...28.94.3..1.....4..6.31.98...6.37.....7......83214...9 #G063 .9..837.4..3.....1285....9.....9.1.....728.....4.1.....5....4181.....2..8.214..7. #G064 9....653..325918.6....4......8.....5..98632..2.....3......5....8.362415..251....8 #G075 .7.......6..142..74..57..9.5....4.7...76.52...6.8....4.2..69..57..451..9.......1. #G081 ..5....6.........74.8.763.2.8.23.17.1.76.52.8.62.17.5.8.136.7.57.........5....6.. #G087

by **ronk** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:56 pm

Code: Select all: 6...83724......8.....47.3...28.94.3..1.....4..6.31.98...6.37.....7......83214...9 #G063 SSTS gets to here 6 59 1 | 59 8 3 | 7 2 4 34 7 34 | 2569 256 12569 | 8 569 156 2 8 59 | 4 7 1569 | 3 569 156 -------------------+-------------------+------------------ 57 2 8 | 567 9 4 | 1 3 567 39 1 39 | 25678 256 2568 | 56 4 2567 457 6 45 | 3 1 25 | 9 8 257 -------------------+-------------------+------------------ 159 459 6 | 259 3 7 | 24 15 8 159 459 7 | 25689 256 25689 | 24 156 3 8 3 2 | 1 4 56 | 56 7 9 . . . | / / . | . / . . . . | #6 #6 *6 | . *6 -6 . . . | / / *6 | . *6 6 ---------+----------+---------- . . . | 6 . . | . / 6 . . . | 6 6 6 | 6 / 6 . . . | . . . | . / . ---------+----------+---------- . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | 6 6 6 | . *6 . / / / | / / *6 | *6 / . mutant swordfish r9c8b2\c6b39 plus fin r2c45, implies r2c9<>6 . 5 . | *5 / / | . . . . . . | *5 #5 *5 | . #5 -5 . . 5 | / / *5 | . #5 5 ---------+----------+---------- 5 . . | *5 / / | / / *5 . . . | *5 *5 *5 | *5 / *5 5 . 5 | / / *5 | / / *5 ---------+----------+---------- 5 5 . | 5 . . | . *5 . 5 5 . | 5 5 5 | . *5 . / / / | / / *5 | *5 / . mutant starfish r9c8b256\r5c469b9 plus fins r2c5 and r23c8, implies r2c9<>5 A few SSTS steps later 6 59 1 | 59 8 3 | 7 2 4 34 7 34 | 2569 256 2569 | 8 59 1 2 8 59 | 4 7 1 | 3 569 56 -------------------+-------------------+------------------ 57 2 8 | 567 9 4 | 1 3 567 39 1 39 | 25678 256 2568 | 56 4 2567 457 6 45 | 3 1 25 | 9 8 257 -------------------+-------------------+------------------ 159 459 6 | 259 3 7 | 24 15 8 159 45 7 | 25689 256 25689 | 24 156 3 8 3 2 | 1 4 56 | 56 7 9 / @5 / | *5 / . | / . / / . / | 5 5 5 | / *5 / . . *5 | . . . | . *5 *5 ---------+----------+---------- 5 . . | 5 . . | . . 5 . . . | 5 5 5 | 5 . 5 5 . 5 | . . 5 | . . 5 ---------+----------+---------- 5 5 . | *5 . . | / *5 / 5 -5 . | *5 *5 *5 | / *5 / . . . | . . *5 | *5 . . mutant starfish r1b1389\r389c48 plus endofin r1c2, implies r8c2<>5

Then SSTS solves the puzzle

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Is There a Fish ?

Is There a Fish ?

Re: Is There a Fish ?

3 ultimate fish in G063