The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **ixsetf** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:41 pm

Code: Select all: +-------+-------+-------+ | 1 . . | . . 9 | . . 6 | | . 2 . | 7 . . | . 5 . | | . . 3 | . 8 . | 4 . . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . 9 | 4 . . | . . 3 | | . 8 . | . 5 . | 1 . . | | 7 . . | . . 6 | . 2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . 3 | 7 . . | | . . . | . 2 . | . 8 . | | . . . | 1 . . | . . 9 | +-------+-------+-------+

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If anyone would be willing to do a vicinity search on this puzzle (hopefully including truncations), I would very much appreciate it. There seem to be a lot of somewhat high SE ratings in the vicinity.

by **daj95376** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:13 pm

It can be solved using numerous chains where most produce few eliminations. Alternately, ...

Code: Select all: +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 1 457 4578 | 235 34 9 | 238 37 6 | | 4689 2 468 | 7 1346 14 | 89-3 5 18 | | 569 5679 3 | 256 8 125 | 4 179 127 | |-----------------------------+-----------------------------+-----------------------------| | 256 156 9 | 4 17 1278 | 568 67 3 | | 2346 8 246 | 239 5 27 | 1 4679 47 | | 7 1345 145 | 389 139 6 | 589 2 458 | |-----------------------------+-----------------------------+-----------------------------| | 245689 14569 124568 | 5689 469 3 | 7 146 1245 | | 34569 1345679 14567 | 569 2 457 | 356 8 145 | | 234568 34567 245678 | 1 467 4578 | 2356 346 9 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ # 142 eliminations remain 9r2c7 = r3c8 - r5c8 = r5c4 - r78c4 = r7c5 - r7c2 \ - r3c2 = (9-3)r8c2 = r8c7 => -3 r2c7 || = r8c1 - r5c1 = r5c4 - lasso => -3 r2c7

Code: Select all: after Basics +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 1 57 8 | 25 4 9 | 23 37 6 | | *46 2 *46 | 7 3 1 | 9 5 8 | | 59 579 3 | 6 8 25 | 4 17 127 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 25 15 9 | 4 17 278 | 568 67 3 | | *46+23 8 *46+2 | +23 5 7-2 | 1 9 47 | | 7 1345 145 | 389 19 6 | 58 2 45 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 24589 14569 1245 | 589 69 3 | 7 146 125 | | 3459 134569 1457 | 59 2 457 | 356 8 15 | | 23458 3456 2457 | 1 67 4578 | 2356 346 9 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ # 93 eliminations remain r25c13 <46> UR Type 3.2243 -2 r5c6

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by **champagne** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:04 pm

ixsetf wrote:If anyone would be willing to do a vicinity search on this puzzle (hopefully including truncations), I would very much appreciate it. There seem to be a lot of somewhat high SE ratings in the vicinity.

Did you check whether that pattern or a morph has been played in the pattern game. If not, you could try to submit it, it is the right place for such investigations.

I'll check to morrow the status of that pattern in the data base of potential hardest

by **ixsetf** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:15 pm

Nice solution daj95376! My best solution involved 2 very long chains, this is definitely an improvement.

champagne wrote:Did you check whether that pattern or a morph has been played in the pattern game. If not, you could try to submit it, it is the right place for such investigations.

I'll check to morrow the status of that pattern in the data base of potential hardest

I haven't checked if that pattern has been played in the pattern game, since I still don't have software to do things like check morphs or do vicinity searches. I don't know if there is a public tool which does this, and I unfortunately still lack the coding ability to make one properly.

by **champagne** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:35 pm

ixsetf wrote:I haven't checked if that pattern has been played in the pattern game, since I still don't have software to do things like check morphs or do vicinity searches. I don't know if there is a public tool which does this, and I unfortunately still lack the coding ability to make one properly.

I checked with the file I used to prepare some patterns for the pattern game, one year old, but available. That pattern was unknown in the potential hardest puzzles file at that time.

The code (at least mine) to do vicinity search is public, gsf's code likely can do that as well, but unless you intend to do it on a regular basis, you will find no pleasure in digging in that process.

by **ixsetf** » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:57 pm

champagne wrote:I checked with the file I used to prepare some patterns for the pattern game, one year old, but available. That pattern was unknown in the potential hardest puzzles file at that time.

The code (at least mine) to do vicinity search is public, gsf's code likely can do that as well, but unless you intend to do it on a regular basis, you will find no pleasure in digging in that process.

As I tend to make a lot of puzzles, (a great deal more than actually get posted here) I would be interested in seeing your code.

by **coloin** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:59 pm

Hi
from here download gsf's software
2010.Oct.10 EXE

use the sudoku-64 with windows at dos prompt

type sudoku-64 -f%#xc file.txt

This will print the minlex pattern

you could probably generate puzzles as well.

the commands arnt exactly intuitive [for me] but its ultra reliable

C

by **coloin** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:11 pm

you may find this link interesting
diagonal-patterns-in-the-patterns-game-t30208.html
in it i could only generate 18 different patterns with one empty box.....
C

by **ixsetf** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:17 pm

Thanks for the link to the solver. However I am not familiar with the file type, I imagine I will have some looking around to do before I figure out how to run it.

coloin wrote:you may find this link interesting
diagonal-patterns-in-the-patterns-game-t30208.html
in it i could only generate 18 different patterns with one empty box.....
C

Very interesting work. However I am not particularly surprised by the result, for the empty boxes, and I can explain why the number is as small as it is.

It is possible to break down a pattern with 8 mini diagonals and an empty box into 3 sets of overlapping boxes containing mini-diagonals. When box 1 is empty, these sets would be boxes, {2,3,5,6}, {5,6,8,9}, and {4,5,7,8}.

If you look at 2x2 set of boxes containing mini diagonals there are only three fundamentally different ways to fill in the givens.

They are as follows:

Type 1: Three Box.

Hidden Text: Show

Type 2: Box + 8 Loop

Hidden Text: Show

Type 3: 12 Loop

Hidden Text: Show

There are thus 27 possible combinations. However because {2,3,5,6} swaps with {4,5,7,8} under transpose, 9 of these are equivalent to others, which leaves 18 fundamentally different patterns.

Also since the contents of this thread are straying away from methods of solving the puzzle it might be worthwhile to move this to another subforum.