Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

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Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby ixsetf » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:41 pm

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | . . 9 | . . 6 |
| . 2 . | 7 . . | . 5 . |
| . . 3 | . 8 . | 4 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 9 | 4 . . | . . 3 |
| . 8 . | . 5 . | 1 . . |
| 7 . . | . . 6 | . 2 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . . 3 | 7 . . |
| . . . | . 2 . | . 8 . |
| . . . | 1 . . | . . 9 |
+-------+-------+-------+

Play online

If anyone would be willing to do a vicinity search on this puzzle (hopefully including truncations), I would very much appreciate it. There seem to be a lot of somewhat high SE ratings in the vicinity.
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby daj95376 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:13 pm

It can be solved using numerous chains where most produce few eliminations. Alternately, ...

Code: Select all
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1        457      4578     |  235      34       9        |  238      37       6        |
 |  4689     2        468      |  7        1346     14       |  89-3     5        18       |
 |  569      5679     3        |  256      8        125      |  4        179      127      |
 |-----------------------------+-----------------------------+-----------------------------|
 |  256      156      9        |  4        17       1278     |  568      67       3        |
 |  2346     8        246      |  239      5        27       |  1        4679     47       |
 |  7        1345     145      |  389      139      6        |  589      2        458      |
 |-----------------------------+-----------------------------+-----------------------------|
 |  245689   14569    124568   |  5689     469      3        |  7        146      1245     |
 |  34569    1345679  14567    |  569      2        457      |  356      8        145      |
 |  234568   34567    245678   |  1        467      4578     |  2356     346      9        |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 142 eliminations remain

 9r2c7 = r3c8 - r5c8 = r5c4 - r78c4 = r7c5 - r7c2 \
              - r3c2                               = (9-3)r8c2 = r8c7                        =>  -3 r2c7
                                                                  ||
                                                               = r8c1 - r5c1 = r5c4 - lasso  =>  -3 r2c7


Code: Select all
 after Basics
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1       57      8       |  25      4       9       |  23      37      6       |
 | *46      2      *46      |  7       3       1       |  9       5       8       |
 |  59      579     3       |  6       8       25      |  4       17      127     |
 |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
 |  25      15      9       |  4       17      278     |  568     67      3       |
 | *46+23   8      *46+2    | +23      5       7-2     |  1       9       47      |
 |  7       1345    145     |  389     19      6       |  58      2       45      |
 |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------|
 |  24589   14569   1245    |  589     69      3       |  7       146     125     |
 |  3459    134569  1457    |  59      2       457     |  356     8       15      |
 |  23458   3456    2457    |  1       67      4578    |  2356    346     9       |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 # 93 eliminations remain

 r25c13  <46> UR Type 3.2243             -2 r5c6

_
daj95376
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby champagne » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:04 pm

ixsetf wrote:If anyone would be willing to do a vicinity search on this puzzle (hopefully including truncations), I would very much appreciate it. There seem to be a lot of somewhat high SE ratings in the vicinity.



Did you check whether that pattern or a morph has been played in the pattern game. If not, you could try to submit it, it is the right place for such investigations.

I'll check to morrow the status of that pattern in the data base of potential hardest
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby ixsetf » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:15 pm

Nice solution daj95376! My best solution involved 2 very long chains, this is definitely an improvement.

champagne wrote:Did you check whether that pattern or a morph has been played in the pattern game. If not, you could try to submit it, it is the right place for such investigations.

I'll check to morrow the status of that pattern in the data base of potential hardest


I haven't checked if that pattern has been played in the pattern game, since I still don't have software to do things like check morphs or do vicinity searches. I don't know if there is a public tool which does this, and I unfortunately still lack the coding ability to make one properly.
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Joined: 11 May 2014

Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby champagne » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:35 pm

ixsetf wrote:I haven't checked if that pattern has been played in the pattern game, since I still don't have software to do things like check morphs or do vicinity searches. I don't know if there is a public tool which does this, and I unfortunately still lack the coding ability to make one properly.


I checked with the file I used to prepare some patterns for the pattern game, one year old, but available. That pattern was unknown in the potential hardest puzzles file at that time.

The code (at least mine) to do vicinity search is public, gsf's code likely can do that as well, but unless you intend to do it on a regular basis, you will find no pleasure in digging in that process.
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby ixsetf » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:57 pm

champagne wrote:I checked with the file I used to prepare some patterns for the pattern game, one year old, but available. That pattern was unknown in the potential hardest puzzles file at that time.

The code (at least mine) to do vicinity search is public, gsf's code likely can do that as well, but unless you intend to do it on a regular basis, you will find no pleasure in digging in that process.


As I tend to make a lot of puzzles, (a great deal more than actually get posted here) I would be interested in seeing your code.
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby coloin » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:59 pm

Hi
from here download gsf's software
2010.Oct.10 EXE

use the sudoku-64 with windows at dos prompt

type sudoku-64 -f%#xc file.txt

This will print the minlex pattern

you could probably generate puzzles as well.

the commands arnt exactly intuitive [for me] but its ultra reliable

C
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby coloin » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:11 pm

you may find this link interesting
diagonal-patterns-in-the-patterns-game-t30208.html
in it i could only generate 18 different patterns with one empty box.....
C
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Re: Interesting pattern with diagonal symmetry

Postby ixsetf » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:17 pm

Thanks for the link to the solver. However I am not familiar with the file type, I imagine I will have some looking around to do before I figure out how to run it.

coloin wrote:you may find this link interesting
diagonal-patterns-in-the-patterns-game-t30208.html
in it i could only generate 18 different patterns with one empty box.....
C


Very interesting work. However I am not particularly surprised by the result, for the empty boxes, and I can explain why the number is as small as it is.

It is possible to break down a pattern with 8 mini diagonals and an empty box into 3 sets of overlapping boxes containing mini-diagonals. When box 1 is empty, these sets would be boxes, {2,3,5,6}, {5,6,8,9}, and {4,5,7,8}.

If you look at 2x2 set of boxes containing mini diagonals there are only three fundamentally different ways to fill in the givens.

They are as follows:

Type 1: Three Box.
Hidden Text: Show
aaa3.png
Type 3
aaa3.png (32.95 KiB) Viewed 721 times

Type 2: Box + 8 Loop
Hidden Text: Show
aaa2.png
Type 2
aaa2.png (31.77 KiB) Viewed 721 times

Type 3: 12 Loop
Hidden Text: Show
aaa1.png
Type 1
aaa1.png (33.09 KiB) Viewed 721 times


There are thus 27 possible combinations. However because {2,3,5,6} swaps with {4,5,7,8} under transpose, 9 of these are equivalent to others, which leaves 18 fundamentally different patterns.

Also since the contents of this thread are straying away from methods of solving the puzzle it might be worthwhile to move this to another subforum.
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software

Postby Pat » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:05 am

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