The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[spfmember]

I'm new to this game and really enjoy it, except for one thing. I've noticed that lately even some of the simple puzzles command a 'guess' in the beginning. I don't like guessing numbers because to me that makes it no longer a game of logic. Is it indeed possible with every puzzle to have no guesses if we pencil in all the possibilities and go from there?

[Pat]

I've noticed that lately even some of the simple puzzles command a 'guess'

please post one of those "simple" puzzles -- then we can see if it really "needs guessing"---

[spfmember]

I can't post anything because it's on my Blackberry. Trust me, there was no way short of starting to pencil-in to solve anything. The first 10 or so puzzles I did had no guesswork but after that they started and I was disappointed. I just wondered why all the puzzles couldn't be like the first few I did. Is the difference between simple/normal and the more complicated puzzles the necessity to pencil-in numbers? I thought it strange that a simpler puzzle would require it.

[Glyn]

spfmember I assume that your Blackberry game has the capability of displaying 'Pencil Marks' (the remaining choices for the unsolved cells). Are you scanning that for the last available choice in a cell (naked singles) or the last available cell for a number in a row, column or box (hidden singles).

I would be worried if a program only offered 10 easy puzzles, even if it was upping the difficulty level a little each time.

As Pat has said we can't assess how much of a leap in difficulty has occurred unless you can give us a starting grid.

[spfmember]

I just did an 'easy' puzzle and I had all the 'blocks' filled in except for the two far left ones, the top and middle block, in which there were no numbers at all. I was stuck. So I 'guessed' two numbers, which were narrowed down to a possibility of only 2 spaces and that made the rest solvable.

I do look at the pencil marks provided by Swoosh on my BB, but somehow that's sort of cheating since I didn't put them in there, and yes, it does help. I'm so new at this....I'm just trying to figure out how to solve it "all by self" as a child would say

[Luke]

It's quite safe to say that the Blackberry's "simple" puzzles do not require guessing to solve.

It's also unlikely that you can't post your puzzle here simply because it's on yr PDA. It just takes a little effort on your part. Folks around here need something to sink their teeth into, like an actual grid. It's up to you to provide that.

We'd like to see your puzzle. You could present it if you copied it to a Sudoku program, edited it to the point where you got stuck, and posted it here the best you can. I have done this with a puzzle from my Palm handheld...it's quite possible, fun even. If you take some effort, I think you might be surprised at the effort you will get in return.

Pencilmarks are not considered cheating. Superfluous, to some sharp tacks, but certainly not cheating. If you feel bad about having a program generate them, then do it yourself. Most folks do. If your results are not the same as the program's, then you'll learn something in the comparison. The vast majority of solvers use pencilmarks without compunction.

As for guessing....the toughest puzzles in the world can be cracked with one or two correct guesses. It's almost absurd that Sudoku players jump the hurdles of logic that they do. It's the same reason a golfer will try to hit a perfect drive with an implement singularly unsuited for the task when a howitzer would accomplish the task much more efficiently!

Guessing?? Never, that's the whole point of the game.

[spfmember]

I don't think my cell phone Sudoku game will let me pencil in numbers. So far, all I see is the ability to turn them on or off.

Never guess at a number? That's my goal, to learn how to get past the hurdles in a logical and not guessing fashion. I think I need to review the questions/answers given here, as I'm probably asking elementary questions that have been addressed before.

I can't go back and retrieve a game I got stuck on because they no longer exist. All I can remember is that I thought it strange that in one puzzle, I solved the three top and three bottom grids (boxes?) but had no numbers in the middle 3 boxes, and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to get any number whatsoever in there w/o a guess. Like I said, I'm a beginner. But I do appreciate the comments given here and will learn a little more before I get too obnoxious.

[Pat]

there was no way short of starting to pencil-in to solve anything

speak for yourself!

I can't go back and retrieve a game I got stuck on because they no longer exist

that's too bad, however, you've described it as a general phenomenon, so how about just writing down some of these "simple" puzzles before you start -- then if you get stuck you can show us the puzzle---