how to proceed from here?

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how to proceed from here?

Postby sudoku987 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:05 am

how can i proceed from here without guessing?

i solved it by guessing but i wanna learn how to decipher it mathematically.

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Postby Pat » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:05 am

r3c8

then r1c7, r3c7
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Re: how to proceed from here?

Postby Leren » Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:33 am

Your diagram is a bit confusing, but this is what I think your puzzle is.

Code: Select all
*-----------*
|8..|34.|.2.|
|2..|...|...|
|34.|7..|..1|
|---+---+---|
|.3.|..9|..5|
|...|16.|734|
|.64|...|.1.|
|---+---+---|
|...|..3|.6.|
|.1.|...|..2|
|...|25.|19.|
*-----------*

You can get to here by marking off the clues and looking for naked and hidden singles.

Code: Select all
*----------------------------------------------------*
| 8      57    #1567    | 3    4   156  | 9   2  67  |
| 2      579   #15679   | 5689 89  1568 | 34  47 367 |
| 3      4     #69      | 7    29  26   | 8   5  1   |
|-----------------------+---------------+------------|
| 1      3      27      | 4    27  9    | 6   8  5   |
| 59    $2589  $2589    | 1    6   25-8 | 7   3  4   |
| 57     6      4       | 58   3   578  | 2   1  9   |
|-----------------------+---------------+------------|
| 4579   25789  25789-6 | 89   1   3    | 45  6  78  |
| 45679  1      35789-6 | 689  789 4678 | 345 47 2   |
| 467    78     378     | 2    5   4678 | 1   9  378 |
*----------------------------------------------------*

At this point, You can see that there are 3 sixes in Box 1, all in Column 3 (cells marked #). One of them must be 6, so you can remove 2 6's from Column 3 in Box 7.

Similarly you can see that there are 2 eights in Box 4, both in Row 5 (cells marked $), so you can remove an 8 from Row 5 in Box 5.

Code: Select all
*----------------------------------------------------*
| 8      57     1567  | 3    4   156   | 9   2   67  |
| 2      579    15679 | 5689 89  1568  | 34  47  367 |
| 3      4      69    | 7    29  26    | 8   5   1   |
|---------------------+----------------+-------------|
| 1      3      27    | 4    27  9     | 6   8   5   |
| 59     2589   2589  | 1    6   25    | 7   3   4   |
| 57     6      4     | 58   3   578   | 2   1   9   |
|---------------------+----------------+-------------|
| 4579   25789  25789 | 89   1   3     | 45  6   78  |
| 45679  1      35789 | 689  789 4678  | 345 47  2   |
| 46-7  #78    #378   | 2    5   46-78 | 1   9  #378 |
*----------------------------------------------------*

You also have a Naked Triple (378) in Row 9, cells marked #, so you can remove some 7's and 8's from other cells in Row 9.

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| 8      57    1567   | 3     4    156  | 9   2   67  |
| 2      579   15679  | 5689  89   1568 | 34  47  367 |
| 3      4     69     | 7     29   26   | 8   5   1   |
|---------------------+-----------------+-------------|
| 1      3     27     | 4     27   9    | 6   8   5   |
| 59     2589  2589   | 1     6    25   | 7   3   4   |
| 57     6     4      | 58    3    578  | 2   1   9   |
|---------------------+-----------------+-------------|
| 4579   25789 25789  | 89    1    3    | 45  6   78  |
| 4569-7 1     3589-7 | 689  #789 #4678 | 345 4-7 2   |
| 46     78    378    | 2     5    46   | 1   9   378 |
*-----------------------------------------------------*

Now there are two 7's in Box 8 in Row 8 (cells marked #), so you can remove some 7's in Boxes 7 and 9 in Row 8.

If you are observant, the puzzle should solve with naked and hidden singles from there.

Leren

<edit> Fixed typo in naked triple. Was (478) now (378).
Last edited by Leren on Thu Nov 17, 2022 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Posts: 5032
Joined: 03 June 2012

Re:

Postby sudoku987 » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:08 am

Pat wrote:r3c8

then r1c7, r3c7

what r u talking about?
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Joined: 16 November 2022

Re: how to proceed from here?

Postby sudoku987 » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:35 am

Leren wrote:Your diagram is a bit confusing, but this is what I think your puzzle is.

Code: Select all
*-----------*
|8..|34.|.2.|
|2..|...|...|
|34.|7..|..1|
|---+---+---|
|.3.|..9|..5|
|...|16.|734|
|.64|...|.1.|
|---+---+---|
|...|..3|.6.|
|.1.|...|..2|
|...|25.|19.|
*-----------*

You can get to here by marking off the clues and looking for naked and hidden singles.

Code: Select all
*----------------------------------------------------*
| 8      57    #1567    | 3    4   156  | 9   2  67  |
| 2      579   #15679   | 5689 89  1568 | 34  47 367 |
| 3      4     #69      | 7    29  26   | 8   5  1   |
|-----------------------+---------------+------------|
| 1      3      27      | 4    27  9    | 6   8  5   |
| 59    $2589  $2589    | 1    6   25-8 | 7   3  4   |
| 57     6      4       | 58   3   578  | 2   1  9   |
|-----------------------+---------------+------------|
| 4579   25789  25789-6 | 89   1   3    | 45  6  78  |
| 45679  1      35789-6 | 689  789 4678 | 345 47 2   |
| 467    78     378     | 2    5   4678 | 1   9  378 |
*----------------------------------------------------*

At this point, You can see that there are 3 sixes in Box 1, all in Column 3 (cells marked #). One of them must be 6, so you can remove 2 6's from Column 3 in Box 7.

Similarly you can see that there are 2 eights in Box 4, both in Row 5 (cells marked $), so you can remove an 8 from Row 5 in Box 5.

Code: Select all
*----------------------------------------------------*
| 8      57     1567  | 3    4   156   | 9   2   67  |
| 2      579    15679 | 5689 89  1568  | 34  47  367 |
| 3      4      69    | 7    29  26    | 8   5   1   |
|---------------------+----------------+-------------|
| 1      3      27    | 4    27  9     | 6   8   5   |
| 59     2589   2589  | 1    6   25    | 7   3   4   |
| 57     6      4     | 58   3   578   | 2   1   9   |
|---------------------+----------------+-------------|
| 4579   25789  25789 | 89   1   3     | 45  6   78  |
| 45679  1      35789 | 689  789 4678  | 345 47  2   |
| 46-7  #78    #378   | 2    5   46-78 | 1   9  #378 |
*----------------------------------------------------*

You also have a Naked Triple (478) in Row 9, cells marked #, so you can remove some 7's and 8's from other cells in Row 9.

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| 8      57    1567   | 3     4    156  | 9   2   67  |
| 2      579   15679  | 5689  89   1568 | 34  47  367 |
| 3      4     69     | 7     29   26   | 8   5   1   |
|---------------------+-----------------+-------------|
| 1      3     27     | 4     27   9    | 6   8   5   |
| 59     2589  2589   | 1     6    25   | 7   3   4   |
| 57     6     4      | 58    3    578  | 2   1   9   |
|---------------------+-----------------+-------------|
| 4579   25789 25789  | 89    1    3    | 45  6   78  |
| 4569-7 1     3589-7 | 689  #789 #4678 | 345 4-7 2   |
| 46     78    378    | 2     5    46   | 1   9   378 |
*-----------------------------------------------------*

Now there are two 7's in Box 8 in Row 8 (cells marked #), so you can remove some 7's in Boxes 7 and 9 in Row 8.

If you are observant, the puzzle should solve with naked and hidden singles from there.

Leren

thank u so much.

so its standard procedure to mark all clues?

i usually mark when there is 2 possible options. i guess u get forced to mark all when we're getting stuck?

marking all clues --> identifies naked singles. got it.

i need to practice on Naked Triple.
sudoku987
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 16 November 2022

Re: how to proceed from here?

Postby eleven » Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:57 pm

sudoku987 wrote:so its standard procedure to mark all clues?

Not necessarily. With singles you come here:
Code: Select all
 +---------+----------+----------+
 | 8  .  * |  3  4  . |  9  2  . |
 | 2  .  * |  .  .  . |  .  .  . |
 | 3 *4  * |  7  .  . |  8  5  1 |
 +---------+----------+----------+
 | 1  3  . |  4  .  9 |  6  8  5 |
 | .  .  . |  1  6  . |  7  3 *4 |
 | . *6 *4 |  .  3  . |  2  1  9 |
 +---------+----------+----------+
 | .  .  . |  .  1  3 |  . *6  . |
 | .  1  . |  .  .  . |  .  .  2 |
 | #  -  - |  2  5  # |  1  9  - |
 +---------+----------+----------+

Look at 4 and 6, which must be in r123c3, so both can't be in r9c239 => hidden pair 46r9c16
Code: Select all
 +---------+----------+----------+
 | 8  .  . |  3  4  . |  9  2  . |
 | 2  .  . |  .  .  . |  .  .  . |
 | 3  4  . |  7  .  . |  8  5  1 |
 +---------+----------+----------+
 | 1  3  . |  4  .  9 |  6  8  5 |
 | .  .  . |  1  6  . |  7  3  4 |
 | .  6  4 |  .  3  . |  2  1  9 |
 +---------+----------+----------+
 | .  .  . |  .  1  3 |  .  6  . |
 | .  1  . |  .  *  * |  .  .  2 |
 | 46 .  . |  2  5  46|  1  9  . |
 +---------+----------+----------+

Now 7 must be in r8c56, can't be in r8c8 => 7r2c8
Code: Select all
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | 8 . . | 3 4 . | 9 2 6 |
 | 2 . . | . . . | 4 7 3 |
 | 3 4 . | 7 . . | 8 5 1 |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | 1 3 . | 4 . 9 | 6 8 5 |
 | . . . | 1 6 . |*7 3 4 |
 | # 6 4 | . 3 . | 2 1 9 |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | 4 . . | . 1 3 | 5 6 . |
 | . 1 . | . * * | 3 4 2 |
 | 6 . 3 | 2 5 4 | 1 9 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+

Now 7 in c1 can only be in r6.
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