here is the puzzle I need help with

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here is the puzzle I need help with

Postby stevens » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:30 am

--- --- --- --- 1 --- --- --- ---
1 --- --- 2 --- 7 --- --- 6
6 8 --- --- --- --- --- 2 ---
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- 7 ---
--- --- --- 3 2 6 --- --- ---
--- 6 --- --- 5 --- --- --- ---
5 2 --- --- --- --- --- 8 3
8 --- --- 7 --- 5 --- --- 1
--- --- --- --- 6 --- --- --- ---

this is a number place and I tried to break up the different size boxes by putting extra spaces between them, in row one the center box contains 5 squares in row two the center box contains 4 squares this is repeated in row 8 & 9 first 4 squares then 5 squares. row three has 3 squares in each "box" row 4 is 4 squres,l square, 3 squres and 1 square the top left and bottom right are the traditional 9 square box, if you need more details, let me know, oh right each "box must contain 1-9 as each row must also. thanks
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Postby tarek » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:55 am

Hi stevens,

This is the how your puzzle would look liked after using the tips found in "How to ask for help" thread [assuming a non variant puzzle]. you can fiddle with it to cange boxes shapes.....
Code: Select all
 . . . | . 1 . | . . . 
 1 . . | 2 . 7 | . . 6 
 6 8 . | . . . | . 2 . 
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . . | . 7 . 
 . . . | 3 2 6 | . . . 
 . 6 . | . 5 . | . . . 
-------+-------+------
 5 2 . | . . . | . 8 3 
 8 . . | 7 . 5 | . . 1 
 . . . | . 6 . | . . .


[Edit: I just noticed that Stevens post SEEMS to indicate that it is some kind of variant].

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Postby MCC » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:17 am

This thread will help in posting killer type puzzles.

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Postby QBasicMac » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 pm

tarek wrote:[Edit: I just noticed that Stevens post SEEMS to indicate that it is some kind of variant].


Yep, must be. At any rate, the puzzle you posted has a messed up col 5:

Code: Select all
+-----------------------+----------------+--------------------+
| 23479  34579  234579  | 6    1    3489 | 34589  3459  45789 |
| 1      3459   3459    | 2    489  7    | 34589  3459  6     |
| 6      8      34579   | 459  49   349  | 1      2     4579  |
+-----------------------+----------------+--------------------+
| 2349   13459  1234589 | 149  489  1489 | 6      7     24589 |
| 479    14579  145789  | 3    2    6    | 4589   1459  4589  |
| 2479   6      124789  | 149  5    1489 | 3489   1349  2489  |
+-----------------------+----------------+--------------------+
| 5      2      6       | 149  49   149  | 7      8     3     |
| 8      49     49      | 7    3    5    | 2      6     1     |
| 379    1379   1379    | 8    6    2    | 459    459   459   |
+-----------------------+----------------+--------------------+


Mac
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Here is the puzzle I need help with

Postby Cec » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:22 pm

QBasicMac wrote:
tarek wrote:Edit: I just noticed that Stevens post SEEMS to indicate that it is some kind of variant].


Just a thought - when posting their puzzle I wonder did stevens leave out clues for r3c9 and r4c5? This would then make the puzzle symetrical.
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Re: Here is the puzzle I need help with

Postby QBasicMac » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:03 am

cecbevwr wrote:I wonder did stevens leave out clues for r3c9 and r4c5?


Wouldn't matter. The puzzle is already invalid. More numbers can't make it valid.

Nope. Surely it is some variant following rules we don't know. Time to unscribe to this thread.:D

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Re: Here is the puzzle I need help with

Postby Cec » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:30 am

QBasicMac wrote:"..More numbers can't make it valid..."

Good point Mac.
QBasicMac wrote:".. .Time to unscribe to this thread.:D "

Don't mind if you do Mac!. On second thoughts I think I will too.:)
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Postby CathyW » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:02 am

Stevens - if this is a number place, aka Killer Sudoku, try the Variants forum and use the thread suggested above about posting or at least let us know the position and value of the cages e.g. r1c12 = 15 meaning that r1c1 and r1c2 add to 15 (7+8 or 6+9) etc.
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here are the correct known #'s for this puzzle

Postby stevens » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:04 pm

here are the known's c1r2-1 c1r3-6, c1r7-5, c1r8-8, c2r3-8, c2r6-6,c2r7-2, no known #'s in c3 c4r2-2, c4r5-3, c4r8-7 c5 r1-1, c5r5-2 c5r9-6, c6r2-7, c6r5-6 c6r8-5, no known #'s in c7, c8r3-2, c8r4-7, c8r7-8, c9r2-6, c9r3-9, c9r7-3, c9r8-1
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Postby CathyW » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:21 pm

Er ... thanks but that doesn't tell us any more than the grid you posted above. In order to help you with a killer sudoku we need the cage sums, not just the numbers you've got. If it's not a killer sudoku (sum number place) then please explain what type of variant it is.

Is it an irregular sudoku i.e. where the 'boxes' are not square? If so, you need to explain more clearly the pattern.
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sorry for all the confusion, can you tell I'm new at this?

Postby stevens » Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:26 am

I have done some research and think it is called a geometry sudoku, or latin squares puzzles, they can be seen here=http://www.maa.org/editorial/mathgames/mathgames_09_05_05.html the one I'm trying to solve is like the 8th set of puzzles, further if you go to http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=91b8aba1-9832-4c4d-97d8-ac09f984c8ab, it is puzzle #3 that I'm having the trouble with, any help at all is really appreciated.
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Postby CathyW » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:58 pm

This is an irregular sudoku! (btw the link doesn't work with the extra comma at the end). I've printed out a copy to have a go - will post again if I get anywhere.

The boxes are defined:

1. r123c123
2. r1c45678, r2c4567
3. r1c9, r2c89, r3c789, r4c678
4. r4c1234, r5c1234, r6c1
5. r3c456, r4c5, r5c5, r6c5, r7c456
6. r4c9, r5c6789, r6c6789
7. r6c234, r7c123, r8c12, r9c1
8. r8c3456, r9c23456
9. r789c789
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Postby r.e.s. » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:18 pm

That's a jigsaw sudoku apparently taken from Michael Mepham's site.
I'd used it as an <example to illustrate the Law of Leftovers (LoL)> ...

Image
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Postby CathyW » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:10 pm

OK Stevens - I solved the puzzle! So here's a walkthrough of the steps taken, but first a picture to show the shapes of the boxes.
Image
I didn't knowingly use the "Law of Leftovers".

First look for any singles:
Only one place for 6 in column 3 (r4c3), and in box 5 (r7c4)

I had to enter candidates but then locked candidates proved very helpful:
Box 4 - 2 must go in r4c1 or r6c1 -> Box 1 r1c3=2 -> Box 8 r9c6=2 -> Box 9 r8c7=2 -> r8c8=6 -> r1c7=6.

Row 1, 7s locked to r1c12 -> r3c5=7
Row 2, 8s locked to r2c57 -> r1c9=8 -> r6c6=8 -> r4c5=8 -> r2c7=8 -> r5c3=8 -> r9c4=8
Box 6, 3s locked in r6 -> r3c6=3
Box 6, 1s locked in c8 -> locked in box 3 c7 -> r4c6=4 -> r1c6=9 -> r7c6=1.

Naked pair (45) in c4 -> another pair (19) in c4.
Naked pair (45) in r3 -> r3c7=1

Hopefully you can manage the rest but the complete solution is in tiny text below (copy and paste to text editor and enlarge the font to view).:)

372519648
194237856
685473129
956184372
748326915
261958734
527691483
839745261
413862597
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thanks cathy w

Postby stevens » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:15 am

for all your help. Now I just have one more puzzle to solve to get all the cords I need to find the cache, I might be back for more help.
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