Hardest published puzzle

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Hardest published puzzle

Postby 999_Springs » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:55 pm

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this.

Has there been a published puzzle harder than the ones from the final of the Su-Doku championships in the Times?
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Re: Hardest published puzzle

Postby re'born » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:03 pm

999_Springs wrote:I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this.

Has there been a published puzzle harder than the ones from the final of the Su-Doku championships in the Times?

Do you have a link to that puzzle?
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Postby Mauricio » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:50 pm

That is a hard question to answer, as "hardness" is a very subjective matter.
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Postby Steve R » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:02 pm

999_Springs

Many of the puzzles discussed in this foruum are much, much harder but you may not consider that as "publication."

re'born

You might like to look here.

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Postby re'born » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:23 pm

Steve R wrote:999_Springs

Many of the puzzles discussed in this foruum are much, much harder but you may not consider that as "publication."

re'born

You might like to look here.

Steve

Thank you Steve. In this case, I'd say that this is not the hardest puzzle published. Flying home last year on an American Airlines flight, I ran into a puzzle in the in-flight magazine that "required" xy-chains to solve. I didn't believe it (maybe I still don't) so I took it home and entered it into SudoCue. Sure enough, nothing below xy-chains would do it (unless you rank ALS before xy-chains). The Times puzzle cracks with a swordfish.
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Postby Steve R » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:01 am

Yes, but does it not come back to Mauricio’s point? The issue is whether the solver finds the swordfish or the chain

r3c8 =9= r3c3 -9- r23c1 =9= r9c1 (two stringed kite)

easier to spot.

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Postby wintder » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:21 am

Steve R wrote:Yes, but does it not come back to Mauricio’s point? The issue is whether the solver finds the swordfish or the chain

r3c8 =9= r3c3 -9- r23c1 =9= r9c1 (two stringed kite)

easier to spot.

Steve


There are at least two points of potential contention.

Published and difficulty.

A third issue might be personal solving order. Eg.
If I do ER before x-wings I would see the kite first, else I am pretty likely to notice the sword first. Which I do first is not a given. I am prone to variety for its own sake.:)
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Postby daj95376 » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:14 am

I thought the AI Escargot puzzle was published in an article. If so, then it should qualify as the winner for this thread.
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Postby udosuk » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:57 am

One way to interpret 999_Springs's question can be: "Has there been a puzzle published in the Times which is harder than the ones from the final of the Su-Doku championships in the Times?" In that case I can't answer it because I haven't been tracking their puzzles for a long long time, but hopefully someone else can.

If it includes puzzles published elsewhere, then not only are there puzzles published in newspapers, magazines, books etc, but also those published in websites. In that case, Ruud's Sudocue website contains many diabolical puzzles in the "Daily Nightmare" collection which I'm sure are much harder than many of those mentioned here.

Although it is not easy, there are definitely objective ways to compare the difficulties between 2 puzzles. For example, if one puzzle can be solved by swordfish, but another puzzle can only be solved by a jellyfish with several swordfish and x-wings then the latter puzzle should be considered harder than the former one.

Wikipedia wrote:Publishing is the process of production and dissemination of literature or information – the activity of making information available for public view. In some cases, authors may be their own publishers.

Traditionally, the term refers to the distribution of printed works such as books (the "book world") and newspapers. With the advent of digital information systems and the Internet, the scope of publishing has expanded to include electronic resources, such as the electronic versions of books and periodicals, as well as websites, blogs, games and the like.

With the definition above, perhaps the hardest puzzle ever "published" is JPF's [edited, thanks gsf!] Easter Monster (or other puzzles of similar level), posted somewhere in this website, which should probably be considered harder than the AI Escargot, in terms of SE ratings/brute force complexity etc.
Last edited by udosuk on Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby gsf » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:27 am

udosuk wrote:With the definition above, perhaps the hardest puzzle ever "published" is Ocean's Easter Monster (or other puzzles of similar level), posted somewhere in this website, which should probably be considered harder than the AI Escargot, in terms of SE ratings/brute force complexity etc.

I think Easter Monster is JPF's
Code: Select all
11.4 # 100000002090400050006000700050903000000070000000850040700000600030009080002000001 # JPF 04/07/01 (Easter Monster)
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Postby JPF » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:24 am

Thanks gsf,

udosuk wrote:And an innocent little suggestion: aside from "JPF 04/07/1" this puzzle could have a nickname "Easter Monster"!:D

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Postby udosuk » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:35 am

gsf wrote:I think Easter Monster is JPF's

Mea culpa. I've edited my post above. My memory is getting worse.:(

Apologies to JPF and thanks gsf again!
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Postby 999_Springs » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:30 pm

Mauricio wrote:"hardness" is a very subjective matter

I leave the hierarchy of difficulty open to interpretation.
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