Fun puzzle. So many methods to solve. No CHAINS required.

Post puzzles for others to solve here.

Postby RW » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:06 pm

So, you don't like forcing chains, but maybe you'll find some pleasure in this wheel of fortune:

Code: Select all
...|...|...
..9|5.7|6..
.45|8.6|32.
---+---+---
.68|3.1|54.
...|...|...
.93|2.4|71.
---+---+---
.34|6.8|15.
..1|4.9|8..
...|...|...


wapati wrote:Is there a puzzle type (eg BUG) where forcing chains are just the long way around?

Not puzzle type, but plenty of puzzles when it comes to uniqueness technique. Just posted a puzzle here that requires 5 forcing chains in SE, but only a glance at the starting grid if you know the right technique!:)

RW
RW
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 16 March 2006

Postby wapati » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:59 pm

RW wrote:So, you don't like forcing chains, but maybe you'll find some pleasure in this wheel of fortune:
RW


Brilliant puzzle!! Thanks:D
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby wapati » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:02 pm

ravel wrote:
Carcul wrote:
Wapati wrote:Hairy, below chins
This puzzle is too easy:
Already forgot the remote pairs Wapati ?:)


I'll admit to using them if I trip over them but I bet that people who like chains spot them quicker!:idea:
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Wheel of Fortune

Postby Carcul » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:16 pm

Code: Select all
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 13678   78      67  | 19      234     23 | 49      79      5      |
 | 13      2       9   | 5       34      7  | 6       8       14     |
 | 17      4       5   | 8       19      6  | 3       2       179    |
 |---------------------+--------------------+------------------------|
 | 27      6       8   | 3       79      1  | 5       4       29     |
 | 4       1       27  | 79      68      5  | 29      36      368    |
 | 5       9       3   | 2       68      4  | 7       1       68     |
 |---------------------+--------------------+------------------------|
 | 279     3       4   | 6       27      8  | 1       5       279    |
 | 267     57      1   | 4       2357    9  | 8       367     2367   |
 | 26789   578     267 | 17      12357   23 | 249     3679    234679 |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------*

[r3c9]=7=[r3c1]-7-[r4c1]-2-[r4c9]-9-[r3c9],

=> r3c9<>9 solving the puzzle.

Forcing chains often provide shorter solutions. In fact, if I were Finnish I would say that solving this puzzle without forcing chains would be "kiivetä perse edellä puuhun".

Carcul
Carcul
 
Posts: 724
Joined: 04 November 2005

Postby RW » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:00 pm

carcul wrote:In fact, if I were Finnish I would say that solving this puzzle without forcing chains would be "kiivetä perse edellä puuhun".

It's actually very fun to "kiivetä perse edellä puuhun". Have you ever tried it? We had a sergeant in the army who made us learn the noble skill and after that I've practised it a few times in street lights on my way home from the bar.:D It's great for your abdominals also!

RW
RW
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: 16 March 2006

Re: Wheel of Fortune

Postby Ocean » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Carcul wrote:[r3c9]=7=[r3c1]-7-[r4c1]-2-[r4c9]-9-[r3c9],

=> r3c9<>9 solving the puzzle.

Even simpler is this XY-wing:

-7-[r3c1]-1-[r3c5]-9-[r4c5]-7-,
=> r4c1<>7 solving the puzzle.
Code: Select all
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 13678   78      67  | 19      234     23 | 49      79      5      |
 | 13      2       9   | 5       34      7  | 6       8       14     |
 |#17      4       5   | 8      #19      6  | 3       2       179    |
 |---------------------+--------------------+------------------------|
 |*27      6       8   | 3      #79      1  | 5       4       29     |
 | 4       1       27  | 79      68      5  | 29      36      368    |
 | 5       9       3   | 2       68      4  | 7       1       68     |
 |---------------------+--------------------+------------------------|
 | 279     3       4   | 6       27      8  | 1       5       279    |
 | 267     57      1   | 4       2357    9  | 8       367     2367   |
 | 26789   578     267 | 17      12357   23 | 249     3679    234679 |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------*
Carcul wrote:Forcing chains often provide shorter solutions. In fact, if I were Finnish I would say that solving this puzzle without forcing chains would be "kiivetä perse edellä puuhun".
In general I would agree to this observation - a few hard steps can often replace several less hard steps. But would like to add: Sometimes it can be a challenge to pick techniques that immediately solve the puzzle. There are many blind paths - they don't hurt, they "waste" time, but they might lead us through beautiful landscape. When alternative short paths are available, it's also a challenge to select the simplest of those paths.
Ocean
 
Posts: 442
Joined: 29 August 2005

Re: Wheel of Fortune

Postby wapati » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:21 am

Ocean wrote:Sometimes it can be a challenge to pick techniques that immediately solve the puzzle. There are many blind paths - they don't hurt, they "waste" time, but they might lead us through beautiful landscape. When alternative short paths are available, it's also a challenge to select the simplest of those paths.


Well said. Two shortcuts I often see are URs and grouped x-wings.

What kills me is that most swordfish I find are ones that are already "done", no eliminations.:)
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby wapati » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:36 am

This has some humour!

Code: Select all
..8...6..
561...934
.3..9..2.
....2....
27.....89
..5...4..
....4....
8.......1
7..239..8
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby wapati » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:46 am

This too!

(Daj, I was teasing.)

Code: Select all
9 . . | . . 2 | . . 5
. . 2 | . 3 . | . 8 .
. 4 7 | . 5 . | . . .
---------------------
. . . | . . . | . . 1
. 3 6 | . 4 . | . . .
8 . . | . . . | 4 3 9
---------------------
. . . | . . 5 | 9 2 .
. 2 . | . . 7 | 8 . 6
4 . . | 6 . 8 | . 1 .
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby Carcul » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:52 am

Ocean wrote:Even simpler is this XY-wing:


Why simpler? The number of links is the same.

Wapati wrote:This has some humour!


Code: Select all
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 9       2       8    | 34      5       34    | 6       1       7  |
 | 5       6       1    | 78      78      2     | 9       3       4  |
 | 4       3       7    | 16      9       16    | 8       2       5  |
 |----------------------+-----------------------+--------------------|
 | 136     489     3469 | 346789  2       34678 | 137     5       36 |
 | 2       7       346  | 3456    16      3456  | 13      8       9  |
 | 136     89      5    | 36789   1678    3678  | 4       67      2  |
 |----------------------+-----------------------+--------------------|
 | 36      5       29   | 18      4       18    | 27      79      36 |
 | 8       49      23   | 567     67      567   | 23      49      1  |
 | 7       1       46   | 2       3       9     | 5       46      8  |
 *-------------------------------------------------------------------*

[r9c8]=6=[r6c8](-6-[r6c1])-6-[r4c9]-3-[r5c7]-1-[r5c5]=1=[r6c5]-
-1-[(r6c1)]-3-[r7c1]-6-[r9c3]=6=[r9c8],

=> r9c8=6 solving the puzzle.

Wapati wrote:This too!


Code: Select all
 *-------------------------------------------*
 | 9    8    13 | 17   67   2  | 136  4    5 |
 | 5    16   2  | 9    3    4  | 16   8    7 |
 | 136  4    7  | 8    5    16 | 136  9    2 |
 |--------------+--------------+-------------|
 | 27   9    4  | 57   8    3  | 25   6    1 |
 | 12   3    6  | 15   4    9  | 25   7    8 |
 | 8    17   5  | 2    67   16 | 4    3    9 |
 |--------------+--------------+-------------|
 | 67   67   8  | 3    1    5  | 9    2    4 |
 | 13   2    13 | 4    9    7  | 8    5    6 |
 | 4    5    9  | 6    2    8  | 7    1    3 |
 *-------------------------------------------*

[r3c7]=1=[r8c1]=3=[r3c1]-3-[r3c7], => r3c7<>3 solving the puzzle.

Carcul
Carcul
 
Posts: 724
Joined: 04 November 2005

Postby Carcul » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 am

RW wrote:It's actually very fun to "kiivetä perse edellä puuhun". Have you ever tried it? We had a sergeant in the army who made us learn the noble skill and after that I've practised it a few times in street lights on my way home from the bar. It's great for your abdominals also!


No, I have never tried it, but if it's great for the abdominals, then I will consider start doing it.:D

Carcul
Carcul
 
Posts: 724
Joined: 04 November 2005

Postby ravel » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:07 am

Mhm, for the others:
hymyillä kuin hangon keksi.
ravel
 
Posts: 998
Joined: 21 February 2006

Postby wapati » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:32 pm

This has lots of Turbots or lots of ERs, depending on the path you take?
The swordfish may be missed.:(

Code: Select all
2 8 . | . . 3 | . 4 7
7 . 1 | 9 . . | . 3 .
. 3 . | 6 7 . | . . 2
---------------------
. 4 5 | . . . | 8 . 1
. . 8 | . 1 . | . 9 .
3 . . | . . 5 | . . .
---------------------
. . . | 5 . . | . . .
8 5 . | . 3 . | . . .
1 . 3 | 7 . . | . . .
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby wapati » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:20 pm

I had troubles with this one. I do like it when URs are required rather than shortcuts!

Code: Select all
. 7 . | . . . | 9 . 3
. 8 . | . 2 . | 1 . .
. 1 . | 3 . . | . 5 6
---------------------
5 . . | . . 1 | . . .
. . 7 | . 3 . | . 9 .
. . . | 9 . . | 6 . .
---------------------
2 . . | . 7 . | . . .
. 4 . | . . . | 2 3 8
8 . 1 | . . 3 | . . .
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Postby wapati » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:44 pm

ER to the rescue. APE can be used, apparently, but I don't know it.
Fortunately there is a work around using grouped x and ER. phew!

Code: Select all
. 4 . | . . 8 | 9 2 .
. 6 8 | . . . | . . 4
9 . . | . . . | . . 8
---------------------
. . . | . 8 . | . . 9
. . 7 | 6 . 9 | . . .
3 . 4 | . 5 . | . . .
---------------------
. . . | 4 1 . | . 5 .
4 . . | . . . | . 9 6
. 2 . | 7 . . | 3 . .
wapati
2010 Supporter
 
Posts: 527
Joined: 13 September 2006
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada

PreviousNext

Return to Puzzles