Fish on wave 9.3

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Re: Fish on wave 9.3

Postby Mauriès Robert » Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:36 pm

denis_berthier wrote:
Mauriès Robert wrote:
denis_berthier wrote:How to obtain this in SudoRules?
1- First, load braids.
2- Second, init the puzzle: (init-sudoku-string "..42....6.6..7..3.2....61..1....46...5..9..1...71....99....37...8..4..5...37....8")
3- Third, ask for the wanted elimination: (try-to-eliminate-candidates 523); SudoRules gives:
braid[8]: r2n1{c3 c6} - r1n1{c6 c2} - r9n1{c2 c5} - c1n5{r1 r9} - r1n7{c2 c8} - r9n6{c1 c8} - c8n9{r1 r3} - b1n9{r3c3 .} ==> r2c3 ≠ 5

What would have happened if at stage 3 Sudorules had found nothing?

Nothing.
Obviously, if the elimination was not available, SudoRules wouldn't do it. Function "try-to-eliminate-candidates" doesn't do more than its name suggests; in particular, it doesn't try to eliminate any other candidate than those listed as arguments.

I suggest you continue this discussion on the thread http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/questions-about-pbcs-t38617-15.html#p300643 where I ask you a question.
Robert
Mauriès Robert
 
Posts: 585
Joined: 07 November 2019
Location: France

Re: Fish on wave 9.3

Postby denis_berthier » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:03 am

I wondered what Forcing-T&E would give for this puzzle. In a limited sense, Forcing-T&E is the opposite of my usual approach: instead of applying the simplest available rule at each step, regardless of the total number of steps, it tries to minimise the number of steps, regardless of the complexity of each step. Here, "minimise" has to be taken in a broad sense: only one resolution path is followed; optimisation of the choice of the successive starting bivalue pairs is purely local.

What I get is nine steps of Forcing-T&E(S), i.e. many more than in the few examples I had already tried:

(solve "..42....6.6..7..3.2....61..1....46...5..9..1...71....99....37...8..4..5...37....8")
***********************************************************************************************
*** SudoRules 20.1.s based on CSP-Rules 2.1.s, config = S
*** Using CLIPS 6.32-r779
*** Download from: https://github.com/denis-berthier/CSP-Rules-V2.1
***********************************************************************************************
hidden-single-in-a-row ==> r8c1 = 7
hidden-single-in-a-column ==> r5c6 = 7
182 candidates, 976 csp-links and 976 links. Density = 5.93%

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       1379      4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1589      4589      7         1589      24589     3         245
   2         379       589       34589     358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       289       358       2358      4         6         278       2357
   3468      5         268       368       9         7         2348      1         234
   3468      234       7         1         23568     258       23458     248       9
   9         124       1256      568       12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         126       69        4         129       239       5         123
   456       124       3         7         1256      1259      249       2469      8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n1r2c3 and n1r2c6 :
.... 1 values decided by n1r2c3 : n1r2c3
.... 45 values decided by n1r2c6 : n1r2c6 n1r1c2 n1r9c5 n7r3c2 n7r1c8 n7r4c9 n5r6c7 n9r4c2 n3r6c2 n3r1c1 n8r7c4 n6r5c4 n9r8c4 n2r8c6 n5r9c6 n6r9c1 n1r8c3 n3r8c9 n5r7c3 n6r7c5 n8r6c6 n4r6c8 n2r7c8 n9r9c8 n4r9c7 n2r9c2 n1r7c9 n8r3c8 n3r3c5 n5r4c5 n3r4c4 n8r1c5 n4r3c4 n5r3c9 n9r3c3 n8r2c3 n2r5c3 n5r2c1 n9r1c7 n2r2c7 n4r2c9 n4r7c2 n2r6c5 n8r5c1 n3r5c7
===> 0 values decided in both cases:
===> 3 candidates eliminated in both cases: n5r2c3 n9r2c3 n1r7c3

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       1379      4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         18        4589      7         1589      24589     3         245
   2         379       589       34589     358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       289       358       2358      4         6         278       2357
   3468      5         268       368       9         7         2348      1         234
   3468      234       7         1         23568     258       23458     248       9
   9         124       256       568       12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         126       69        4         129       239       5         123
   456       124       3         7         1256      1259      249       2469      8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n5r7c3 and n5r9c1 :
.... 1 values decided by n5r7c3 : n5r7c3
.... 52 values decided by n5r9c1 : n5r9c1 n8r2c1 n1r2c3 n3r1c1 n5r3c3 n9r4c3 n8r5c3 n4r6c8 n6r6c1 n4r5c1 n6r5c4 n9r8c4 n3r8c7 n1r8c9 n2r8c6 n1r9c6 n6r9c5 n2r9c8 n6r7c8 n2r7c3 n4r9c2 n9r9c7 n1r7c2 n6r8c3 n4r7c9 n7r3c9 n9r3c2 n8r3c8 n7r4c8 n3r3c5 n4r3c4 n5r2c4 n8r7c4 n5r7c5 n2r6c5 n3r6c2 n2r4c2 n8r4c5 n5r6c6 n8r6c7 n3r4c4 n5r4c9 n2r2c9 n3r5c9 n4r2c7 n9r2c6 n8r1c6 n1r1c5 n5r1c7 n7r1c2 n9r1c8 n2r5c7
===> 0 values decided in both cases:
===> 2 candidates eliminated in both cases: n6r7c3 n5r7c4

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       1379      4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         18        4589      7         1589      24589     3         245
   2         379       589       34589     358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       289       358       2358      4         6         278       2357
   3468      5         268       368       9         7         2348      1         234
   3468      234       7         1         23568     258       23458     248       9
   9         124       25        68        12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         126       69        4         129       239       5         123
   456       124       3         7         1256      1259      249       2469      8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n6r8c4 and n9r8c4 :
.... 47 values decided by n6r8c4 : n6r8c4 n8r7c4 n3r5c4 n5r4c4 n6r5c3 n6r9c1 n6r7c8 n5r7c3 n6r6c5 n5r6c7 n3r4c9 n3r8c7 n9r8c6 n7r4c8 n7r3c9 n5r2c9 n8r2c1 n4r5c1 n3r6c1 n2r6c2 n8r6c6 n4r6c8 n2r4c5 n1r7c5 n5r9c5 n2r9c6 n9r9c8 n4r9c7 n1r9c2 n2r8c3 n1r8c9 n2r7c9 n8r3c8 n3r3c5 n9r3c2 n4r3c4 n9r2c4 n2r2c7 n8r5c7 n8r1c5 n9r1c7 n4r7c2 n5r1c1 n1r1c6 n1r2c3 n9r4c3 n3r1c2
.... 3 values decided by n9r8c4 : n9r8c4 n6r8c3 n1r2c3
===> 1 values decided in both cases: n1r2c3
===> 7 candidates eliminated in both cases: n1r1c2 n8r2c3 n1r2c6 n9r3c4 n1r8c3 n9r8c7 n9r9c6

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       379       4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1         4589      7         589       24589     3         245
   2         379       589       3458      358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       289       358       2358      4         6         278       2357
   3468      5         268       368       9         7         2348      1         234
   3468      234       7         1         23568     258       23458     248       9
   9         124       25        68        12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         26        69        4         129       23        5         123
   456       124       3         7         1256      125       249       2469      8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n6r8c4 and n9r8c4 :
.... 48 values decided by n6r8c4 : n6r8c4 n8r7c4 n3r5c4 n5r4c4 n4r3c4 n9r2c4 n2r8c3 n3r8c7 n1r8c9 n9r8c6 n5r7c3 n3r4c9 n7r4c8 n7r3c9 n5r2c9 n8r2c6 n2r6c6 n8r4c5 n6r6c5 n9r4c3 n2r4c2 n8r3c3 n6r5c3 n9r3c8 n3r3c2 n4r6c2 n1r9c2 n5r9c6 n2r9c5 n1r7c5 n1r1c6 n8r6c8 n5r6c7 n3r6c1 n8r5c1 n5r3c5 n3r1c5 n5r1c1 n8r1c7 n2r7c8 n4r7c9 n6r9c8 n4r9c1 n9r9c7 n2r5c9 n4r5c7 n2r2c7 n9r1c2
.... 2 values decided by n9r8c4 : n9r8c4 n6r8c3
===> 0 values decided in both cases:
===> 1 candidates eliminated in both cases: n6r9c1

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       379       4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1         4589      7         589       24589     3         245
   2         379       589       3458      358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       289       358       2358      4         6         278       2357
   3468      5         268       368       9         7         2348      1         234
   3468      234       7         1         23568     258       23458     248       9
   9         124       25        68        12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         26        69        4         129       23        5         123
   45        124       3         7         1256      125       249       2469      8

hidden-single-in-a-block ==> r8c3 = 6
naked-single ==> r8c4 = 9

FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n2r5c3 and n8r5c3 :
.... 4 values decided by n2r5c3 : n2r5c3 n5r7c3 n4r9c1 n4r6c2
.... 49 values decided by n8r5c3 : n8r5c3 n3r8c7 n1r8c9 n2r8c6 n4r7c9 n9r9c7 n9r2c6 n4r5c1 n5r9c1 n1r9c6 n6r9c5 n2r9c8 n4r9c2 n6r7c8 n8r7c4 n5r7c5 n2r7c3 n1r7c2 n9r4c3 n5r3c3 n7r3c9 n9r1c8 n7r1c2 n8r2c1 n3r1c1 n6r6c1 n9r3c2 n2r5c7 n3r5c9 n6r5c4 n5r4c9 n3r4c4 n2r6c5 n3r6c2 n8r4c5 n5r6c6 n8r1c6 n5r1c7 n4r2c7 n8r6c7 n4r6c8 n8r3c8 n5r2c4 n7r4c8 n3r3c5 n1r1c5 n2r4c2 n4r3c4 n2r2c9
===> 0 values decided in both cases:
===> 8 candidates eliminated in both cases: n2r4c3 n2r5c9 n4r6c1 n2r6c2 n4r6c7 n4r7c2 n4r9c7 n4r9c8

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       379       4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1         458       7         589       24589     3         245
   2         379       589       3458      358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       89        358       2358      4         6         278       2357
   3468      5         28        368       9         7         2348      1         34
   368       34        7         1         23568     258       2358      248       9
   9         12        25        68        12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         6         9         4         12        23        5         123
   45        124       3         7         1256      125       29        269       8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n3r5c9 and n4r5c9 :
.... 2 values decided by n3r5c9 : n3r5c9 n3r8c7
.... 45 values decided by n4r5c9 : n4r5c9 n4r2c7 n4r7c8 n6r9c8 n9r9c7 n4r3c4 n9r2c6 n2r2c9 n1r7c9 n3r8c9 n2r8c7 n1r8c6 n2r7c2 n5r7c3 n4r9c1 n1r9c2 n4r6c2 n2r5c3 n1r1c5 n3r3c5 n5r3c9 n7r4c9 n8r1c7 n3r5c7 n5r6c7 n5r1c6 n2r9c6 n5r9c5 n8r6c6 n2r6c8 n6r6c5 n8r7c5 n6r7c4 n3r6c1 n9r4c2 n8r4c3 n6r5c1 n9r3c3 n7r3c8 n9r1c8 n2r4c5 n8r2c4 n5r2c1 n7r1c2 n3r4c4
===> 0 values decided in both cases:
===> 6 candidates eliminated in both cases: n8r3c4 n8r4c4 n3r4c9 n3r5c1 n3r5c4 n3r6c7

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       379       4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1         458       7         589       24589     3         245
   2         379       589       345       358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       89        35        2358      4         6         278       257
   468       5         28        68        9         7         2348      1         34
   368       34        7         1         23568     258       258       248       9
   9         12        25        68        12568     3         7         246       124
   7         8         6         9         4         12        23        5         123
   45        124       3         7         1256      125       29        269       8

naked-pairs-in-a-column: c4{r5 r7}{n6 n8} ==> r2c4 ≠ 8

FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n4r7c8 and n4r7c9 :
.... 47 values decided by n4r7c8 : n4r7c8 n4r6c2 n4r9c1 n5r7c3 n2r5c3 n6r9c8 n9r9c7 n9r2c6 n8r2c1 n6r5c1 n3r6c1 n9r4c2 n8r4c3 n5r1c1 n8r1c7 n5r6c7 n7r4c9 n2r4c8 n8r6c8 n2r6c6 n1r8c6 n5r9c6 n2r9c5 n1r9c2 n2r7c2 n1r7c9 n6r6c5 n8r7c5 n6r7c4 n8r5c4 n9r3c3 n7r3c8 n3r3c2 n5r3c5 n3r4c5 n5r4c4 n1r1c5 n4r3c9 n3r5c9 n2r8c9 n3r8c7 n5r2c9 n4r5c7 n2r2c7 n4r2c4 n7r1c2 n9r1c8
.... 5 values decided by n4r7c9 : n4r7c9 n3r5c9 n3r8c7 n1r8c9 n2r8c6
===> 2 values decided in both cases: n3r5c9 n3r8c7
===> 8 candidates eliminated in both cases: n4r2c9 n3r5c7 n4r5c9 n2r7c5 n2r7c9 n2r8c7 n3r8c9 n2r9c6

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       379       4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1         45        7         589       24589     3         25
   2         379       589       345       358       6         1         4789      457
   1         239       89        35        2358      4         6         278       257
   468       5         28        68        9         7         248       1         3
   368       34        7         1         23568     258       258       248       9
   9         12        25        68        1568      3         7         246       14
   7         8         6         9         4         12        3         5         12
   45        124       3         7         1256      15        29        269       8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n2r2c7 and n2r2c9 :
.... 45 values decided by n2r2c7 : n2r2c7 n5r2c9 n4r2c4 n8r2c1 n9r2c6 n9r9c7 n8r1c7 n5r6c7 n4r5c7 n6r5c1 n3r6c1 n4r6c2 n5r1c1 n4r9c1 n9r3c3 n8r4c3 n2r5c3 n5r7c3 n9r4c2 n1r1c6 n5r9c6 n2r8c6 n1r8c9 n4r7c9 n7r3c9 n2r4c9 n8r6c8 n7r4c8 n4r3c8 n3r3c2 n5r3c4 n3r4c4 n5r4c5 n8r3c5 n7r1c2 n9r1c8 n3r1c5 n8r5c4 n6r7c4 n1r9c5 n2r9c2 n6r9c8 n1r7c2 n2r7c8 n2r6c5
.... 4 values decided by n2r2c9 : n2r2c9 n1r8c9 n2r8c6 n4r7c9
===> 3 values decided in both cases: n2r8c6 n1r8c9 n4r7c9
===> 7 candidates eliminated in both cases: n4r3c9 n2r6c6 n4r7c8 n1r7c9 n1r8c6 n2r8c9 n2r9c5

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   358       379       4         2         1358      1589      589       789       6
   58        6         1         45        7         589       24589     3         25
   2         379       589       345       358       6         1         4789      57
   1         239       89        35        2358      4         6         278       257
   468       5         28        68        9         7         248       1         3
   368       34        7         1         23568     58        258       248       9
   9         12        25        68        1568      3         7         26        4
   7         8         6         9         4         2         3         5         1
   45        124       3         7         156       15        29        269       8


FORCING-T&E applied to bivalue candidates n5r6c6 and n8r6c6 :
.... 44 values decided by n5r6c6 : n5r6c6 n3r4c4 n1r9c6 n1r1c5 n3r3c5 n5r4c9 n7r3c9 n9r3c2 n2r4c2 n4r9c2 n5r9c1 n6r9c5 n8r7c4 n5r7c5 n6r5c4 n2r7c3 n6r7c8 n8r2c1 n4r5c1 n5r3c3 n4r3c4 n8r3c8 n7r4c8 n9r1c8 n2r9c8 n9r9c7 n4r6c8 n5r1c7 n8r1c6 n5r2c4 n9r2c6 n3r1c1 n6r6c1 n7r1c2 n3r6c2 n1r7c2 n8r5c3 n2r5c7 n8r6c7 n2r6c5 n4r2c7 n9r4c3 n8r4c5 n2r2c9
.... 42 values decided by n8r6c6 : n8r6c6 n6r5c4 n8r7c4 n6r6c1 n3r1c1 n9r4c3 n8r4c8 n7r4c9 n5r3c9 n8r3c3 n2r5c3 n5r7c3 n4r9c1 n8r5c1 n4r5c7 n2r6c8 n6r7c8 n9r9c8 n2r9c7 n1r9c2 n5r9c6 n6r9c5 n9r2c6 n8r2c7 n9r1c7 n7r1c2 n9r3c2 n1r1c6 n2r7c2 n1r7c5 n5r6c7 n3r6c5 n4r6c2 n5r4c4 n2r4c5 n4r2c4 n3r3c4 n3r4c2 n5r2c1 n2r2c9 n4r3c8 n5r1c5
===> 11 values decided in both cases: n9r3c2 n6r9c5 n8r7c4 n6r5c4 n6r7c8 n9r2c6 n3r1c1 n6r6c1 n7r1c2 n9r4c3 n2r2c9
===> 49 candidates eliminated in both cases: n5r1c1 n8r1c1 n3r1c2 n9r1c2 n3r1c5 n8r1c5 n5r1c6 n9r1c6 n8r1c7 n7r1c8 n8r1c8 n5r2c6 n8r2c6 n2r2c7 n5r2c7 n9r2c7 n5r2c9 n3r3c2 n7r3c2 n9r3c3 n5r3c4 n5r3c5 n8r3c5 n7r3c8 n9r3c8 n9r4c2 n8r4c3 n3r4c5 n5r4c5 n2r4c8 n2r4c9 n6r5c1 n8r5c4 n8r5c7 n3r6c1 n8r6c1 n5r6c5 n6r6c5 n8r6c5 n2r6c7 n8r6c8 n6r7c4 n6r7c5 n8r7c5 n2r7c8 n2r9c2 n1r9c5 n5r9c5 n6r9c8

Code: Select all
CURRENT RESOLUTION STATE:
   3         7         4         2         15        18        59        9         6
   58        6         1         45        7         9         48        3         2
   2         9         58        34        3         6         1         48        57
   1         23        9         35        28        4         6         78        57
   48        5         28        6         9         7         24        1         3
   6         34        7         1         23        58        58        24        9
   9         12        25        8         15        3         7         6         4
   7         8         6         9         4         2         3         5         1
   45        14        3         7         6         15        29        29        8

stte

DEFISE, does your number-of-steps optimisation algorithm apply to this?
denis_berthier
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Re: Fish on wave 9.3

Postby DEFISE » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:22 pm

denis_berthier wrote:
DEFISE, does your number-of-steps optimisation algorithm apply to this?

Hi Denis,
No, but by applying this algorithm I can "minimize" the number of T&E(basics) steps.
(basics = alignments + naked & hidden pairs + naked triplets).
Example with 5 contradictions:

Singles: 7r8c1, 7r5c6
1L2C6 assumed => contradiction
=> Single: 1r2c3
6L8C4 assumed => contradiction
=> Singles: 9r8c4, 6r8c3
1L8C6 assumed => contradiction
=> Singles: 2r8c6, 3r8c7, 1r8c9
9L4C2 assumed => contradiction
Single: 9r4c3
Naked pair: 58b1p49 => -5r1c1 -8r1c1
Single: 3r1c1
8L3C3 assumed => contradiction
=> basics to the solution.
DEFISE
 
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Location: France

Re: Fish on wave 9.3

Postby denis_berthier » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:39 pm

DEFISE wrote:
denis_berthier wrote:DEFISE, does your number-of-steps optimisation algorithm apply to this?

No, but by applying this algorithm I can "minimize" the number of T&E(basics) steps.

Interesting. How many resolution paths did you have to try for this result?
denis_berthier
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Re: Fish on wave 9.3

Postby DEFISE » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:41 pm

denis_berthier wrote:Interesting. How many resolution paths did you have to try for this result?

50 executions but they all give resolutions with 5 contradictions !
And with T&E (singles only) I need between 7 and 10 contradictions.
DEFISE
 
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