Finding sudoku with all "fishes"

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Finding sudoku with all "fishes"

Postby Eioru » Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:21 am

Can everyone list some puzzles required combinations of rare solving techniques. ...I guess this puzzle exist...
I think I am Crazy to write these...but I feel interesting, too.
For example, a puzzle becomes an aquarium, which including Swordfish Jellyfish and Turbotfish,
Or, a puzzle has X-Wing, XY-Wing, and XYZ-Wing together.(easier than other three)
Or, a puzzle has Naked Single, Naked Pair, Naked Triplet, and Naked Quad.
Or, a puzzle has Hidden Single, Hidden Pair, Hidden Triplet, and Hidden Quad.

This is one I find~~
..8.12..3.9.......1.35.6.....4..18.98.......57.92..4.....4.35.2.......8.3..92.6.. (1 X-Wing & 2 XY-Wing & 1 XYZ-Wing)
Last edited by Eioru on Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mike Barker » Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:48 am

Here's one with a finned X-wing, XY-wing and XYZ-wing (there is also a naked quad), but what you get will depend on how you solve it.
Code: Select all
 . . . | 6 7 . | . 8 .
 . . 6 | . . . | 5 . .
 . 2 . | . . 3 | . 6 1
 ------+-------+------
 . 1 4 | . . 7 | . 5 2
 . . 8 | 1 2 5 | 3 4 .
 2 . . | 9 . 4 | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . 2 | . . . | . . .
 5 8 . | . 4 6 | . 3 .
 4 . . | . 1 . | . . .


Here's one that Havard posted. After a two locked candidates there's an X-wing, 2 finned swordfish, and two Franken Jellyfish. After that it gets pretty advanced with lots of options (advanced coloring, nice loops, etc), but there are still a few good fish left in the puzzle.
Code: Select all
. . 3 | 6 . . | . 9 7
1 . . | . 9 . | 6 2 3
6 9 . | 2 7 3 | 1 . 5
------+-------+------
3 . 6 | . . . | 7 . 9
. 5 . | . 3 9 | . 6 .
4 . 9 | . . 6 | 3 . .
------+-------+------
9 3 1 | . . 8 | . 7 6
7 4 . | 3 6 . | 9 . .
. 6 . | 9 . 7 | . 3 .
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Postby tarek » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:53 am

For this you need to make sure that the teqniques use are always consistant no matter how u solve it [you need to take your techniques up to colouring, & re-solve with a different technique order], the techniques that appear in all of them should be the techniques to be declared as.. "NEEDED"

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Postby Eioru » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:41 am

Here is a one puzzle

..6.....5
34..2....
.7.3.....
.8...63..
..5.1.8..
..14...7.
.....9.8.
....5..17
2.....4..

and it requires Naked Pair, Naked Triplet, and Naked Quad (every use once)
I use Sudoku Explainer to Analyse
Last edited by Eioru on Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tarek » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:18 am

Eioru wrote:it requires Naked Pair, Naked Triplet, and Naked Quad (every use once)


says who ????

I say it requires a triple but no pairs & no quads.... what do you say to that ?

why do I get the feeling that you are too enthusiatic to post without even bothering to read SOME of what was posted in the past 18 months ?

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Postby udosuk » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:27 am

tarek, why should we discourage others to post? It's the moderators' job to decide if someone has posted too much... If that's a topic of no interest to others it'll sunk to the bottom with a lack of replies anyway...

As for this particular topic, I think there must be a clear hierarchical order of all techniques (at least for the ones being discussed in this thread), as programs such as Simple Sudoku & Sudoku Explainer would adopt... I think those programs should be used to judge whether the techniques are required or not...
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Postby tarek » Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:18 pm

udosuk wrote:tarek, why should we discourage others to post?

My aim was to Encourage others to Read more not the other way round. But I guess it can be iterpreted as being an offensive remark (which was not my intention). Thanks for making me clear that out udosuk.

I think it is a good topic if it focuses on consistancy regardless of the hierarchical order......

unique rectangles for some are much easier than triples x-wings or quads.

why should I say that this puzzle needs a quad if somebody can kill it with a UR.

why should I say that this puzzle needs a quad if I stumbled by accident on an xy wing which again bypasses the quad.

all puzzles solved by techniques up to colouring [to include all types of fishes] plus xy & xyz wing should have the techniques tested in a technique reorder.....

if the that technique is still being use the regardless of hierarchical method you can still claim that it is needed.

Eioru's last puzzle needs more than colouring, how could I pass a claim that it requires a quad, triple & double to solve?

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Postby Mike Barker » Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:12 am

Here are some more puzzles and no I haven't verified that all techniques are necessary or order independent, but I thought Eoiru and others might enjoy them anyway. Thesee are combinations of XY-wings, XYZ-wings, WXYZ-wings, VWXYZ-wings, and UVWXYZ-wings
Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | . 1 6
 . . . | . . 1 | 7 9 .
 8 . 7 | . . . | 3 . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | . 6 2 | . . 5
 3 . . | . . . | . . .
 . 4 . | . 1 . | . 8 .
 ------+-------+------
 . . 2 | 4 5 . | . . .
 4 . 9 | . . 3 | . . .
 . 6 . | . 2 . | 1 . .

 . . . | 8 . . | 3 7 .
 . . 9 | . . . | . 2 .
 8 . . | . . 5 | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | 2 7 . | 8 . .
 . . . | . 5 . | . . .
 3 1 . | . . 8 | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . 1 | . . . | . . 4
 . . 7 | 4 . 1 | . 3 .
 5 . . | . . 6 | . . 9


And here are XY-wings, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9-cell XY-chains
Code: Select all
 . . 2 | . . 1 | 3 . .
 5 1 . | . . 2 | . . .
 . 4 . | . 6 . | 7 . .
 ------+-------+------
 . 2 . | . . . | . 7 .
 . . . | . 3 . | . . 6
 . 9 8 | 2 . . | . . 1
 ------+-------+------
 4 . . | . . . | . 8 .
 . 5 . | . 9 3 | . 2 .
 . . . | . . . | . . 9

 . . . | . . 5 | 2 . .
 6 . . | . . 2 | . . 8
 . . . | 9 . . | . 4 7
 ------+-------+------
 . 5 . | . . . | . . .
 . . 6 | 2 8 . | . 5 .
 7 3 1 | . . . | . . 9
 ------+-------+------
 1 . . | . . 6 | . . .
 . 7 9 | . 3 . | 4 . .
 2 . . | . . . | . . .


XY-rings are harder to find, but here are a few puzzles with 4, 5, and 6-cell XY-rings. In the second, there can be 5 UR eliminations in a row after an X-wing.
Code: Select all
 . 3 8 | . . . | . 1 .
 . . . | . . 4 | . . .
 9 2 4 | . . . | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 6 . . | . . 1 | . . 3
 3 . . | . . . | 8 . 9
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | . 5 . | 2 . 6
 . . 9 | 1 7 . | . . 5
 . . 7 | 6 2 . | . 3 .

 . . 4 | . . . | . 5 .
 6 8 . | . . 1 | 2 . .
 . . . | 4 9 . | . . 6
 ------+-------+------
 . . 3 | . . . | . . .
 . 1 . | . 4 5 | . 9 .
 5 . . | 8 . . | . . 2
 ------+-------+------
 . 2 . | . 3 . | . . .
 . . . | . 1 . | 7 . .
 . . . | . 6 2 | 4 . 3


This one has ALS xz-rule eliminations with 1, 2, 3, and 4 cells and xy-rule eliminations with 2 and 3 cells in addition to some nice loops:
Code: Select all
 6 . . | 1 . . | 4 . 9
 . . 9 | . . . | 5 . .
 . 8 . | 2 . . | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | . 5 2 | . . .
 4 1 . | 7 . . | . . .
 . . . | 9 . . | 3 . .
 ------+-------+------
 3 . . | 4 . . | . 8 .
 . 6 . | . . . | . . .
 . 2 . | 5 . 1 | . . 7


This uses Advanced coloring with 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 strong links:
Code: Select all
 3 . 9 | 5 . . | 1 . .
 . 1 . | . 8 . | . . 3
 . . 8 | . . . | 4 . .
 ------+-------+------
 5 . . | . 3 . | 8 . .
 . 4 . | . . . | 3 2 6
 . . 6 | . . . | . 1 5
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | 8 . 9 | . 6 .
 . 2 . | . . 6 | . . .
 . . . | . 4 . | . . .


Here are puzzles with nice loops with 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 bivalue cells or strong links (the first puzzle includes a 9-element loop as well):
Code: Select all
 . . . | 1 . 8 | . . .
 . . 7 | . . . | . . 6
 5 . . | 7 9 . | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 3 . . | 6 5 . | . 2 .
 . 1 . | . . . | . 4 .
 . . 2 | . . . | 9 . .
 ------+-------+------
 8 2 . | . . . | 7 . .
 1 . . | . 7 5 | . . .
 . . . | . 2 . | . . 9

 4 . . | . 9 5 | 1 . .
 5 . . | . . . | . 2 .
 . . 8 | 2 . 3 | . . 7
 ------+-------+------
 7 . 3 | . 4 . | . . .
 8 . . | 1 . 7 | . . .
 . . 6 | . . . | . . 1
 ------+-------+------
 . 8 . | . 7 . | . . 2
 . . . | . 3 4 | 9 5 .
 3 . . | . . . | . . .


These constain finned or basic X-wings, Swordfish, and Jellyfish unfortunately along with a bunch of other techniques including short nice loops.
Code: Select all
 . 8 . | . 3 . | 5 . .
 3 2 . | . . 8 | 4 . 6
 . . 6 | . . . | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 5 | 2 7 .
 4 . . | 6 . . | . . .
 . . . | . 7 3 | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . 4 . | . . 2 | 8 . 3
 . . 2 | . . . | . . 5
 . . 5 | 9 . . | . 4 .

 . . . | 3 . 1 | 8 . .
 . 3 . | 7 8 . | 2 . 6
 . . 7 | . . . | . 3 .
 ------+-------+------
 . . 1 | . . 2 | 6 . 9
 . . 9 | . . . | 7 . .
 . 7 . | . . . | . 2 .
 ------+-------+------
 8 . . | . 2 . | . 4 .
 . . . | 1 . . | . 5 .
 9 . . | . 4 . | . . .

 . . . | . 1 . | . . 8
 . 1 . | . 6 . | . 2 .
 7 4 . | . . . | . . .
 ------+-------+------
 . 2 . | 1 . . | 3 . .
 . . . | 3 9 . | . . .
 . . 5 | 8 . . | 6 . .
 ------+-------+------
 . . . | . 2 8 | . 6 1
 1 9 . | . . . | 4 8 .
 . . . | . . . | . . .
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