The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[ArkieTech]

Code: Select all

 *-----------*
 |4..|3.1|5..|
 |3..|5..|...|
 |.5.|.2.|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |6.2|...|.1.|
 |..8|...|6..|
 |.7.|...|4.8|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|.5.|.8.|
 |...|..3|..9|
 |..1|8.9|..7|
 *-----------*


Play/Print this puzzle online

[SpAce]

Code: Select all

.---------------------.--------------------.-------------------.
|  4      c28     679 | 3      6789   1    |  5    2679   26   |
|  3     c(1)28   679 | 5      46789  4678 |  789  24679  1246 |
|  8-1     5      679 | 4679   2      4678 |  789  34679  1346 |
:---------------------+--------------------+-------------------:
|  6       349    2   | 479    34789  4578 |  79   1      35   |
| a(1)59   349-1  8   | 12479  13479  2457 |  6    2379   235  |
| a(1)59   7      35  | 1269   1369   256  |  4    239    8    |
:---------------------+--------------------+-------------------:
|  279     369    34  | 12467  5      2467 |  123  8      46   |
|  2578   c68     45  | 12467  1467   3    |  12   456    9    |
| a25     b36     1   | 8      46     9    | b23   456    7    |
'---------------------'--------------------'-------------------'

(1=592)r569c1 - (2=36)r9c72 - (6=821)r812c2 => -1 r3c1,r5c2; stte

...or simpler (added):

Code: Select all

.-------------------.--------------------.--------------------.
|  4     28     679 | 3      6789   1    |  5     2679   26   |
|  3     128    679 | 5      46789  4678 |  789   24679  1246 |
|  18    5      679 | 4679   2      4678 |  789   34679  1346 |
:-------------------+--------------------+--------------------:
|  6     349    2   | 479    34789  4578 |  79    1      35   |
|  159   1349   8   | 12479  13479  2457 |  6     2379   235  |
|  159   7      35  | 1269   1369   256  |  4     239    8    |
:-------------------+--------------------+--------------------:
|  279   369  a(3)4 | 12467  5      2467 |  12-3  8      46   |
|  2578  68    a45  | 12467  1467   3    |  12    456    9    |
| b25    6-3    1   | 8      46     9    | b2(3)  456    7    |
'-------------------'--------------------'--------------------'

WXYZ-Wing:

(3=45)r78c3 - (5=23)r9c17 => -3 r7c7,r9c2; stte

[rjamil]

WXYZ-Wing:

(3=45)r78c3 - (5=23)r9c17 => -3 r7c7,r9c2; stte

This is an interesting WXYZ-Wing example that there are several simultaneous WXYZ-Wings present at the same puzzle state:

1) WXYZ-Wing: 3468 @ r7c39 r89c2 => -6 @ r7c2
2) WXYZ-Wing: 3469 @ r9c25 r47c2 => -4 @ r4c5
3) WXYZ-Wing: 3469 @ r7c239 r9c2 => -6 @ r9c8

R. Jamil

[Ngisa]

Code: Select all

+----------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
| 4       b28      679 | 3        6789     1    | 5      2679     c26   |
| 3        128     679 | 5        46789    4678 | 789    24679     1246 |
|a18       5       679 | 4679     2        4678 | 789    34679     1346 |
+----------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
| 6        349     2   | 479      34789    4578 | 79     1         35   |
|a159      1349    8   | 12479    13479    2457 | 6      2379      235  |
|a159      7       35  | 1269     1369     256  | 4      239       8    |
+----------------------+------------------------+-----------------------+
| 279      369    e34  | 12467    5        2467 |f123    8        d46   |
| 2578     68      45  | 12467    1467     3    | 12     456       9    |
|h2-5      36      1   | 8        46       9    |g23     456       7    |
+----------------------+-------------------------+----------------------+


(5=198)r356c1 - (8=2)r1c2 - (2=6)r1c9 - (6=4)r7c9 - (4=3)r7c3 - r7c7 = (3-2)r9c7 = (2)r9c2 => - 5r9c1; stte

Clement

[SpAce]

This is an interesting WXYZ-Wing example that there are several simultaneous WXYZ-Wings present at the same puzzle state:

1) WXYZ-Wing: 3468 @ r7c39 r89c2 => -6 @ r7c2

Technically true, but it contains a simpler XY-Wing (346)r7c39,r9c2 that also gives you: -6 r9c8

2) WXYZ-Wing: 3469 @ r9c25 r47c2 => -4 @ r4c5
3) WXYZ-Wing: 3469 @ r7c239 r9c2 => -6 @ r9c8

I don't think these are valid WXYZ-Wings or any elimination logic using those cells.

[Cenoman]

Code: Select all

 +----------------------+-------------------------+-----------------------+
 |  4      28     679   |  3       6789    1      |  5     2679    26     |
 |  3      128    679   |  5       46789   4678   |  789   24679   1246   |
 |  18     5      679   |  4679    2       4678   |  789   34679   1346   |
 +----------------------+-------------------------+-----------------------+
 |  6      349    2     |  479     34789   4578   |  79    1       35     |
 |  159    1349   8     |  12479   13479   2457   |  6     2379    235    |
 |  159    7      35    |  1269    1369    256    |  4     239     8      |
 +----------------------+-------------------------+-----------------------+
 | a279    369    34    |  12467   5       2467   |  123   8       46     |
 | a257-8 d68     45    |  12467   1467    3      |  12    456     9      |
 | b25    c36     1     |  8       46      9      | c23    456     7      |
 +----------------------+-------------------------+-----------------------+

Almost hidden pair:
HP(27)r78c1 = (2)r9c1 - (23=6)r9c27 - (6=8)r8c2 => -8r8c1; ste

[rjamil]

Hi SpAce,

This is an interesting WXYZ-Wing example that there are several simultaneous WXYZ-Wings present at the same puzzle state:

1) WXYZ-Wing: 3468 @ r7c39 r89c2 => -6 @ r7c2

Technically true, but it contains a simpler XY-Wing (346)r7c39,r9c2 that also gives you: -6 r9c8

2) WXYZ-Wing: 3469 @ r9c25 r47c2 => -4 @ r4c5
3) WXYZ-Wing: 3469 @ r7c239 r9c2 => -6 @ r9c8

I don't think these are valid WXYZ-Wings or any elimination logic using those cells.

Code: Select all

 +--------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------+
 | 4     28          679    | 3      6789      1    | 5    2679    26     |
 | 3     128         679    | 5      46789     4678 | 789  24679   1246   |
 | 18    5           679    | 4679   2         4678 | 789  34679   1346   |
 +--------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------+
 | 6     [349]       2      | 479    [3789-4]  4578 | 79   1       35     |
 | 159   1349        8      | 12479  13479     2457 | 6    2379    235    |
 | 159   7           35     | 1269   1369      256  | 4    239     8      |
 +--------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------+
 | 279   [({39}-6)]  {(34)} | 12467  5         2467 | 123  8       {(46)} |
 | 2578  (68)        45     | 12467  1467      3    | 12   456     9      |
 | 25    {[(36)]}    1      | 8      [46]      9    | 23   {45-6}  7      |
 +--------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------+
1) WXYZ-Wing: (3468 @ r7c39 r89c2) => -6 @ r7c2
2) WXYZ-Wing: [3469 @ r9c25 r47c2] => -4 @ r4c5
3) WXYZ-Wing: {3469 @ r7c239 r9c2} => -6 @ r9c8

Yes, it also contains an XY-wing at the same puzzle state:

Code: Select all

 +------------------+--------------------+------------------+
 | 4     28    679  | 3      6789   1    | 5    2679   26   |
 | 3     128   679  | 5      46789  4678 | 789  24679  1246 |
 | 18    5     679  | 4679   2      4678 | 789  34679  1346 |
 +------------------+--------------------+------------------+
 | 6     349   2    | 479    34789  4578 | 79   1      35   |
 | 159   1349  8    | 12479  13479  2457 | 6    2379   235  |
 | 159   7     35   | 1269   1369   256  | 4    239    8    |
 +------------------+--------------------+------------------+
 | 279   39-6  (34) | 12467  5      2467 | 123  8     (46)  |
 | 2578  68    45   | 12467  1467   3    | 12   456   9     |
 | 25    (36)  1    | 8      46     9    | 23   45-6  7     |
 +------------------+--------------------+------------------+
XY-Wing: 346 @ r7c39 r9c2 => -6 @ r7c2 r9c8

R. Jamil

[SpAce]

This is an interesting WXYZ-Wing example that there are several simultaneous WXYZ-Wings present at the same puzzle state:

The colored parts got me confused. The latter two WXYZ-Wings only exist after the first elimination, so apparently you meant they were present in sequence -- not "simultaneously at the same puzzle state" as you wrote. A crucial difference.

In any case, I don't think that's a very good WXYZ-Wing demo, because only the second one in your list makes sense as one (and it's only present after eliminating 6r7c2). The first and the third are much simpler with the XY-Wing which takes care of both at once.

[rjamil]

Hi SpAce,

This is an interesting WXYZ-Wing example that there are several simultaneous WXYZ-Wings present at the same puzzle state:

The colored parts got me confused. The latter two WXYZ-Wings only exist after the first elimination, so apparently you meant they were present in sequence -- not "simultaneously at the same puzzle state" as you wrote. A crucial difference.

In any case, I don't think that's a very good WXYZ-Wing demo, because only the second one in your list makes sense as one (and it's only present after eliminating 6r7c2). The first and the third are much simpler with the XY-Wing which takes care of both at once.

I mean yours WXYZ-Wing and mine above mentioned three WXYZ-Wings are simultaneously present (and your WXYZ-Wing as fourth one too).

R. Jamil
--------------------
English is not [my mother tongue/my first language/a single variety/measure of intelligence/necessary for success].

[SteveG48]

Code: Select all

.-----------------.--------------------.------------------.
| 4     28    679 | 3      6789   1    | 5    2679   26   |
| 3     128   679 | 5      46789  4678 | 789  24679  1246 |
| 18    5     679 | 4679   2      4678 | 789  34679  1346 |
:-----------------+--------------------+------------------:
| 6     349   2   | 479    34789  4578 | 79   1      35   |
| 159   1349  8   | 12479  13479  2457 | 6    2379   235  |
| 159   7     35  | 1269   1369   256  | 4    239    8    |
:-----------------+--------------------+------------------:
| 279   369  b34  | 12467  5      2467 | 123  8      46   |
| 2578  68   b45  | 12467  1467   3    | 12   456    9    |
| 2-5  a36    1   | 8     a46     9    | 23  a456    7    |
'-----------------'--------------------'------------------'


(5=346)r9c258 - (3=45)b7p36 => -5 r9c1 ; stte

[SpAce]

I mean yours WXYZ-Wing and mine above mentioned three WXYZ-Wings are simultaneously present (and your WXYZ-Wing as fourth one too).

That's what you said the first time, and I said it wasn't true. Yet you claim it again, without giving any reasons why I should accept it as the truth now. As far as I see, all of those four WXYZ-Wings are not simultaneously present at the given puzzle state. If they were, you could execute any one of them first. However, you can't start with your second and third WXYZ-Wings, because those cells don't contain WXYZ-Wings until you eliminate 6r7c2. Until then those two are almost-WXYZ-Wings. Do you disagree? In that case, please explain what part I don't understand.

English is not [my mother tongue/my first language/a single variety/measure of intelligence/necessary for success].

Wft is that supposed to mean? No one's been insulting either your intelligence or language skills. English is not my first language either. Yet I'm quite sure we both know what "simultaneous" and "the same puzzle state" mean.

[rjamil]

Hi SpAce,

That's what you said the first time, and I said it wasn't true. Yet you claim it again, without giving any reasons why I should accept it as the truth now. As far as I see, all of those four WXYZ-Wings are not simultaneously present at the given puzzle state. If they were, you could execute any one of them first. However, you can't start with your second and third WXYZ-Wings, because those cells don't contain WXYZ-Wings until you eliminate 6r7c2. Until then those two are almost-WXYZ-Wings. Do you disagree? In that case, please explain what part I don't understand.

One WXYZ-Wing (yours) and first one mine present simultaneously, but then 2nd, 3rd present after mine 1st step. Finally yours also present as 4th step in mine.

In other words, by skipping first 3 steps of my WXYZ-Wings, that do not solve the puzzle to stte, 4th one did it alone. Or, my program detect all 4 WXYZ-Wings one after another.

(#@% - If I'll give you answer in to my language, you won't be able to understand single word without translating. And even then, there is no good translator available that translate 100% accurately from one language to another.)

R. Jamil

[SpAce]

One WXYZ-Wing (yours) and first one mine present simultaneously, but then 2nd, 3rd present after mine 1st step. Finally yours also present as 4th step in mine.

In other words, by skipping first 3 steps of my WXYZ-Wings, that do not solve the puzzle to stte, 4th one did it alone. Or, my program detect all 4 WXYZ-Wings one after another.

In other words you agree that all four were not simultaneously present? Thank you. Finally we can agree on something.