The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Zonkerbl]

_____________
|__4|___|527|
|___|__2|461|
|2_1|74_|389|
|------------
|__9|12_|__8|
|_2_|___|_1_|
|61_|_98|2__|
|------------
|__5|__4|1_2|
|172|5__|___|
|__6|2__|8__|
|------------

Hm, hope this comes out... Haven't quite figured out the whole formatting thing. Anyway I've been scratching away at this off and on and was wondering what the next step might be... Thanx.

[tarek]

where would you place a 9 in row 5?
where would you place an 8 in row 8?

tarek

[Zonkerbl]

AAAAAARGH!

Didn't even notice that.

Doh.

Thanks!

[Cec]

"...Hm, hope this comes out... Haven't quite figured out the whole formatting thing..."

Hi Zonkerbl,
The instructions for posting puzzles are set out in the "Sticky" thread at the top of this forum and you can read about them by clicking on HERE

This Thread might also help you.

Cec

[Zonkerbl]

*experiments*

Code: Select all

_____________
|__4|___|527|
|___|__2|461|
|2_1|74_|389|
|------------
|__9|12_|__8|
|_2_|___|_1_|
|61_|_98|2__|
|------------
|__5|__4|1_2|
|172|5__|___|
|__6|2__|8__|
|------------

Aha! Ok, I didn't get the

Code: Select all

bit.

[Cec]

Hi again Zonkerbl,

I suspect your problem is an incorrectly prepared "template" grid and not the code button. The blank grid must show a "full stop" mark for each cell as seen in my above Thread and NOT a continuous single line for blank cells which appears on your posted grid.

Using the top row of your puzzle as an example then the row will look untidy like this if you type a full line for blank cells:

Code: Select all

|___ 4|____|5 2 7|
 

or neat and tidy like this if you type a "full stop" mark for a blank cell:

Code: Select all

|. . 4|. . .|5 2 7|


and, of course, even better like this, for the whole puzzle:

Code: Select all

 *-------------------*
 |. . 4 |. . . |5 2 7|
 |. . . |. . 2 |4 6 1|
 |2 . 1 |7 4 . |3 8 9|
 |------|------|-----|
 |. . 9 |1 2 . |. . 8|
 |. 2 . |. . . |. 1 .|
 |6 1 . |. 9 8 |2 . .|
 |------|------|-----|
 |. . 5 |. . 4 |1 . 2|
 |1 7 2 |5 . . |. . .|
 |. . 6 |2 . . |8 . .|
 *-------------------*


I hope this helps,

Cec

[Zonkerbl]

Ok, I have another problem from the express, let me try out my coding skills:

Code: Select all

 *-------------------*
 |. 7 . |1 . . |. 5 .|
 |4 5 1 |. . . |. 3 .|
 |. . . |4 5 . |7 . 1|
 |------|------|-----|
 |. . 7 |9 . 5 |. 4 3|
 |5 . . |8 . 4 |. . 9|
 |9 4 . |. . 6 |5 . .|
 |------|------|-----|
 |7 . 2 |. 4 . |. . 5|
 |. 9 4 |5 . . |8 . 6|
 |. . 5 |. . 9 |. . .|
 *-------------------*


[daj95376]

Ok, I have another problem from the express, let me try out my coding skills:

Your coding skills worked great.

Now, look at <8> in [row 5] & [column 7] and see how it affects [box 6] and, eventually, [r6c3].

There's also <1> in [box 5], but it's not necessary.

[Zonkerbl]

Ah, there we go, and from there it's easy.

I was looking for stuff like that but that one slipped by me...

Thanks!

[Cec]

".....Now, look at <8> in [row 5] & [column 7] and see how it affects [box 6] and, eventually, [r6c3]..."

In box6 I can see that digit 8 cannot go in r5 or in c7 but how do you determine where the 8 goes in the only two remaining cells r6c8 or r6c9.

On another matter which I've been reluctant to query but now wish to do so, I understand that <8> signifies digit 8. I'm not a mathematician but my recollection at school was that "<" meant "less than" and ">" meant "more than". Would it not be clearer to sudoku forum members to define digit 8 as simply digit 8 rather than <8>?

Cec

[daj95376]

".....Now, look at <8> in [row 5] & [column 7] and see how it affects [box 6] and, eventually, [r6c3]..."

In box6 I can see that digit 8 cannot go in r5 or in c7 but how do you determine where the 8 goes in the only two remaining cells r6c8 or r6c9.

You don't initially determine where 8 goes in [r6c89]. That's why I included the and, eventually ... to indicate that 8 is eliminated in [r6c3] because it must be in [r6c89].

On another matter which I've been reluctant to query but now wish to do so, I understand that <8> signifies digit 8. I'm not a mathematician but my recollection at school was that "<" meant "less than" and ">" meant "more than". Would it not be clearer to sudoku forum members to define digit 8 as simply digit 8 rather than <8>?

I don't have any idea when or specifically why I started placing inequality signs around digits. I suspect that it was to give them a distinctive appearance -- like my habit of using [r6c89], as used in chains, instead of r6c89, as used in sentences.

Sudoku members have no problem understanding that Naked Pair 23 is about the digits 2 & 3 and not the number twenty-three. It should probably be written Naked Pair {2,3}. I don't see it happening ... for clarity or any other reason.

It would be more accurate for me to use {8} if I'm going to enclose the digit 8. For clarity, I will try to drop the inequality signs and just use digits.

[Cec]

"... That's why I included the and, eventually ... to indicate that 8 is eliminated in [r6c3] because it must be in [r6c89]...."

Thanks daj95376 for your prompt reply. I incorrectly assumed that the above puzzle could be solved without reference to pencilmarks which are not shown in the above grid.

"... Sudoku members have no problem understanding that Naked Pair 23 is about the digits 2 & 3 and not the number twenty-three. For clarity, it should probably be written Naked Pair {2,3}. I don't see it happening

It would be more accurate for me to use {8} if I'm going to enclose the digit 8. For clarity, I will try to drop the inequality signs and just use digits."

I think the forum members' acceptance of "Naked Pair 23" or, as I prefer "Naked Pair [23]", is because of actually quoting the two words viz. "Naked Pair" to describe this particular "hint". I couldn't envisage members inferring {23} to mean number 23 because 9 is the maximum number used in a puzzle.

Because digits 1 to 9 are single numbers the practice of enclosing single digits between brackets seemed unnecessary to me, hence my preference to define a digit as simply digit 8 . Your intention to drop the inequality signs and just use digits is noted .

Cec

[daj95376]

Yes, my 23 example stunk. What I was trying to say and what resulted after several edits were not the same. Although there are examples where people don't use the same notation, I should try to follow the ones that are most commonly observed. However, don't expect me to give up placing [] around cells and units in sentences. Regards!

[Cec]

Yes, my 23 example stunk............. However, don't expect me to give up placing [] around cells and units in sentences. Regards!

I appreciate your candid reply daj95376. I too find it difficult at times to put my thinking into words as two different meanings can often result - hence my previous reluctance to air my thoughts on this matter.

I see nothing wrong in your continuing to place [] around cells and units and, in fact, I do this myself at times to better explain/identify the situations you have mentioned. My concern was the use of <> when referring to digits which I believe can confuse newcomers. It seems we both agree that either digit 8 or [8] would be preferable. Regards and thanks again.

Cec