December 9, 2017

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December 9, 2017

Postby ArkieTech » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:30 pm

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |..5|7.3|..4|
 |..2|..8|3..|
 |7.4|5..|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |..1|2..|...|
 |.6.|...|.8.|
 |...|..6|1..|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|..5|7.1|
 |..7|3..|4..|
 |5..|1.4|2..|
 *-----------*


Play/Print this puzzle online
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby pjb » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:19 am

Code: Select all
 689     189     5      | 7      169    3      | 69     2      4     
 69      19      2      | 469    1469   8      | 3      7      5     
 7       3       4      | 5      69     2      | 8      1      69     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
d3489    5       1      | 2     e389    7      | 69    c3469   369   
 2       6       39     | 49     349    1      | 5      8      7     
 3489    7       389    | 89     5      6      | 1      349    2     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 389     4       3689   | 68     2      5      | 7     b369    1     
 1       2       7      | 3      6-8    9      | 4      5     a68     
 5       89      3689   | 1      7      4      | 2     b369    3689   

(8=6)r8c9 - r79c8 = (6-4)r4c8 = (4-8)r4c1 = r4c5 => -8 r8c5; stte

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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby eleven » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:41 am

[Edit: oops, posted a solution for the last day's puzzle]
Last edited by eleven on Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby SteveG48 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:01 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 689   189   5     | 7     169   3     |c69    2     4     |
 | 69    19    2     | 469   1469  8     | 3     7     5     |
 | 7     3     4     | 5   ab9-6   2     | 8     1    b69    |
 *-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 3489  5     1     | 2    d389   7     |d69    3469 d369   |
 | 2     6     39    | 49    349   1     | 5     8     7     |
 | 3489  7     389   | 89    5     6     | 1     349   2     |
 *-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 389   4     3689  | 68    2     5     | 7     369   1     |
 | 1     2     7     | 3   be68    9     | 4     5    c68    |
 | 5     89    3689  | 1     7     4     | 2     369   3689  |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


9r3c5 = (9r3c9)&(68r48c5) - (8|9=6)r1c7&r8c9 - (6=389)r4c579 - (8=6)r8c5 => -6 r3c5 ; stte
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby Leren » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:47 am

Code: Select all
*----------------------------------------------*
| 689  189 5    | 7    169  3 | 69  2     4    |
| 69   19  2    | 469  1469 8 | 3   7     5    |
| 7    3   4    | 5    69   2 | 8   1     69   |
|---------------+-------------+----------------|
| 3489 5   1    | 2   b389  7 |b69 b3469 b369  |
| 2    6   39   | 49   349  1 | 5   8     7    |
| 3489 7   389  | 89   5    6 | 1  c349   2    |
|---------------+-------------+----------------|
| 389  4   3689 | 68   2    5 | 7  c369   1    |
| 1    2   7    | 3   a68   9 | 4   5     8-6  |
| 5    89  3689 | 1    7    4 | 2  c369   3689 |
*----------------------------------------------*

ALS XY Wing: (6=8) r8c5 - (8=4) r4c5789 - (4=6) r679c8 => - 6 r8c9; stte

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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby Cenoman » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:04 am

Code: Select all
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+
 |  689    189   5      |  7     169    3    |  69*  2      4      |
 |  69     19    2      |  469   1469   8    |  3    7      5      |
 |  7      3     4      |  5     69     2    |  8    1      69*    |
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+
 | a3489   5     1      |  2    b389    7    |  69* a3469#  369*   |
 |  2      6     39     |  49    349    1    |  5    8      7      |
 |  3489   7     389    |  89    5      6    |  1    349    2      |
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+
 |  389    4     3689   |  68    2      5    |  7    369    1      |
 |  1      2     7      |  3    c68     9    |  4    5      8-6    |
 |  5      89    3689   |  1     7      4    |  2    369    3689   |
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+

Almost turbot-fish (6)r4b3 + rfr4c8
[TF(6)r4c9*=r4c7-r1c7=r3c9]
(64-8)r4c18 = r4c5 - (8=6)r8c5
=> -6 r8c9; stte

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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby eleven » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:39 pm

Code: Select all
 ------------------------------*
 | .   .    .  | 69  .   .     |
 | .   .    .  | .   .   .     |
 | .   .    .  | .   .  b69    |
 |-------------+---------------|
 | .  a39+8 .  | 69  .  b369   |
 | .   .    .  | .   .   .     |
 | .   .    .  | .   .   .     |
 |-------------+---------------|

This is an interesting pattern. Either a=8 or one of b is 6.
Can't find a simple AIC for it.

Here it solves the pair 68 in r8 - and the puzzle.
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby JC Van Hay » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:24 pm

eleven wrote:Can't find a simple AIC for it.
Like Cenoman
Code: Select all
+-----------------+---------------+-------------------+
| 689   189  5    | 7    169    3 | 9(6)  2     4     |
| 69    19   2    | 469  1469   8 | 3     7     5     |
| 7     3    4    | 5    69     2 | 8     1     9(6)  |
+-----------------+---------------+-------------------+
| 3489  5    1    | 2    (389)  7 | (69)  3469  (369) |
| 2     6    39   | 49   349    1 | 5     8     7     |
| 3489  7    389  | 89   5      6 | 1     349   2     |
+-----------------+---------------+-------------------+
| 389   4    3689 | 68   2      5 | 7     369   1     |
| 1     2    7    | 3    6-8    9 | 4     5     (68)  |
| 5     89   3689 | 1    7      4 | 2     369   3689  |
+-----------------+---------------+-------------------+
|8r4c5 3r4c5 9r4c5|
|      3r4c9 9r4c9|6r4c9
|            9r4c7|      6r4c7
                   6r3c9 6r1c7
 8r8c9                   6r8c9
  |
  V
-8r8c5
8r4c5=*TF[6r4c9==*6r4c7-6r1c7=6r3c9]-(6=8)r8c9 => -8r8c5
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby eleven » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:55 pm

No, the pattern does not need Cenoman's deduction, that there is a turbot fish, if 8 is not in r4c5.
Without the 8 in r4c5, there always must be a 6 in r34c9, turbot fish or not.

You could write it e.g. this way:
6r34c9=3r4c9&[9r3c9-r1c6=r4c6]-(3|9=8)r4c5
But this is not a simple AIC ...
(The way i saw it is, that 3r4c5 implies 69r34c9, and 9r4c5 implies 6r3c9 - that is simple)
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby JC Van Hay » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:02 pm

eleven,
1. WYSIWYG ;)
2. Forbidding Matrix is a universal notation contrary to the Eureka notation ! You can read the above FM from any row !
3. I posted an "AIC" from the AIC point of view, not from a Kraken point of view.

Your very simple WYSIWIG :
3r4c5-(3=9=6)r34c9-(6=8)r8c9-8r8c5
||
8r4c5-8r8c5
||
9r4c5-(9=6)r4c7-6r1c7=6r3c9-(6=8)r8c9-8r8c5
can be written as
8r4c5=*[6r3c9=6r1c7-(6=9)r4c7-(9=*3)r4c5-(3=9=6)r34c9]-(6=8)r8c9 -> 8r4c5==8r8c9 => -8r8c5
which is an AIC containing an AAIC and simpler to read than yours.

Best regards, JC
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby eleven » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:30 pm

From my point of view the matrix notation is a logical presentation to prove a move, but not to find one or to easily follow one.
It may be different, if you look at one everyday, but i don't think of writing that down manually.

Yes, you need to write a kraken for this simple move. Or (better for me) you say, it is a pattern (as easy to find as an xyz-wing).

[Added:]
This is, how i will write it:
Code: Select all
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+
 |  689    189   5      |  7     169    3    | #69   2      4      |
 |  69     19    2      |  469   1469   8    |  3    7      5      |
 |  7      3     4      |  5     69     2    |  8    1     #69     |
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+
 |  3489   5     1      |  2    #39+8   7    | #69   3469  #369    |
 |  2      6     39     |  49    349    1    |  5    8      7      |
 |  3489   7     389    |  89    5      6    |  1    349    2      |
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+
 |  389    4     3689   |  68    2      5    |  7    369    1      |
 |  1      2     7      |  3    b6-8    9    |  4     5     a68    |
 |  5      89    3689   |  1     7      4    |  2    369    3689   |
 +----------------------+--------------------+---------------------+

Pattern 369r1c7,r3c9,r4c579: 6r34c9 + 8r4c5
--- [(6=39)r4c59-(9=6)r4c7-r1c7=6r3c9] -> 6r34c9
(8=6)r8c9-6r34c9==8r4c5 => -6r8c6
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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby Cenoman » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:22 am

I am a poor sudoku "patterner", but I can't agree with:
Pattern 369r1c7,r3c9,r4c579: 6r34c9 + 8r4c5

because there is a most common sub-pattern inside: (369)r4c579 + 8r4c5, almost naked triple, usually named ALS. The NT eliminates 6r4c8 wich solves the puzzle (lclste).

Using my beginner's pattern, here is a "simple" AIC: (8=6)r4c579 - r4c8 = r79c8 - (6=8)r8c9 => -8 r8c5; stte
or focusing on the 6's : (6=8)r8c5 - (8=6)r4c579 - r4c8 = (6)r79c8 => -6 r8c9; stte

Sorry for my simplistic and spurious intervention in a debate between matrices and exotic patterns...

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Re: December 9, 2017

Postby eleven » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:27 pm

No doubt, that the pattern is not needed here.

But when you say, you don't agree with using it for a solution, because it contains an almost naked triple as subpattern, this is weird.

In fact the pattern consists of a combination of a triple and a pair, see above (that's why it is easy to spot).
And it provides a strong link for 6 in column 9, just like e.g. a UR type 4 does, which i suppose you do use. So what ?

A pattern is a pattern is a pattern ...
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