Can Not Solve - please provide guidance/tips

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Can Not Solve - please provide guidance/tips

Postby jwestern » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:43 am

-54-2-13-
1234---98
-68-31452
8413-2-75
67--4--1-
53-1-7--4
49721----
386--4-21
215----4-

Please help! Thanks......Jeff:?:
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Posts: 4
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Re: Can Not Solve - please provide guidance/tips

Postby gsf » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:12 am

jwestern, where did you get this one?
its full of cycles
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Postby tso » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:48 am

I couldn't solve this one without pencil marks. This is one path. It is likely that some of these steps can be skipped and other paths may be more efficient or less complex, etc.


Code: Select all
 
 . 5 4 | . 2 . | 1 3 .
 1 2 3 | 4 . . | . 9 8
 . 6 8 | . 3 1 | 4 5 2
-------+-------+------
 8 4 1 | 3 . 2 | . 7 5
 6 7 . | . 4 . | . 1 .
 5 3 . | 1 . 7 | . . 4
-------+-------+------
 4 9 7 | 2 1 . | . . .
 3 8 6 | . . 4 | . 2 1
 2 1 5 | . . . | . 4 .



Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79     5      4      | 6789   2      689    | 1      3     +67     |
 | 1      2      3      | 4     +567    56     |+67     9      8      |
 | 79     6      8      | 79     3      1      | 4      5      2      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 8      4      1      | 3      69     2      | 69     7      5      |
 | 6      7      29     | 589    4      589    | 2389   1      39     |
 | 5      3      29     | 1      689    7      | 2689   68     4      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 4      9      7      | 2      1      3568   | 3568   68     36     |
 | 3      8      6      | 579    579    4      | 579    2      1      |
 | 2      1      5      | 6789  -6789   3689   | 36789  4     +3679   |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*


1) Only place for 6 in box 5 is in column 5 -- exluding 6 from the rest of the column.

2) Turbofish in 7s marked with '+' excludes 7 from the cell marked with a '-'.

r2c5 =7 -> r9c5<>7
r2c5<>7 -> r2c7=7 -> r1c9<>7 -> r9c9=7 -> r9c5<>7
Therefore, r8c5<>7
This is also called "multicolors".



Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79     5      4      |+6789   2      689    | 1      3     +67     |
 | 1      2      3      | 4      57     56     |+67     9      8      |
 | 79     6      8      | 79     3      1      | 4      5      2      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 8      4      1      | 3     t69     2      | 69     7      5      |
 | 6      7      29     | 589    4      589    | 2389   1      39     |
 | 5      3      29     | 1     t689    7      | 2689   68     4      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 4      9      7      | 2      1      3568   | 3568   68     36     |
 | 3      8      6      | 579   x579    4      | 579    2      1      |
 | 2      1      5      |+6789  t89     3689   |-36789  4      3679   |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*



3) Naked triple marked with 't' excludes 9 from 'x'.

4) Another turbofish, this one in 6s marked with '+' eliminates '-'.


Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79    5     4     | 6789  2     689   | 1     3     67    |
 | 1     2     3     | 4     57    56    | 67    9     8     |
 | 79    6     8     | 79    3     1     | 4     5     2     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 8     4     1     | 3     69    2     | 69    7     5     |
 | 6     7     29    | 589   4     589   | 2389  1     39    |
 | 5     3     29    | 1    +689   7     | 2689 +68    4     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 4     9     7     | 2     1    -3568  | 3568 +68    36    |
 | 3     8     6     | 579   57    4     | 579   2     1     |
 | 2     1     5     | 6789 +89    3689  | 3789  4     3679  |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


5) Another turbofish, this one in 8s marked with '+' eliminates '-'.


Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79    5     4     | 6789  2     689   | 1     3     67    |
 | 1     2     3     | 4     57    56    | 67    9     8     |
 | 79    6     8     | 79    3     1     | 4     5     2     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 8     4     1     | 3    +69    2     |+69    7     5     |
 | 6     7     29    | 589   4     589   | 2389  1    +39    |
 | 5     3     29    | 1     689   7     | 2689  68    4     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 4     9     7     | 2     1     356   | 3568  68    36    |
 | 3     8     6     | 579   57    4     | 579   2     1     |
 | 2     1     5     | 6789 -89    3689  | 3789  4    +3679  |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*



6) The only place for an 8 in box 8 is row 9, so r9c7<>8.

7) Yet another turbofish, this one in 9s.

... a few singles later ...

Code: Select all
 
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79    5     4     | 6789  2     689   | 1     3     67    |
 | 1     2     3     | 4     57    56    | 67    9     8     |
 | 79    6     8     | 79    3     1     | 4     5     2     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 8     4     1     | 3     69    2     | 69    7     5     |
 | 6     7     29    | 589   4     589   | 2389  1     39    |
 | 5     3     29    | 1     69    7     | 2689  68    4     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 4     9     7     | 2     1     356   | 3568  68    36    |
 | 3     8     6     | 579   57    4     | 579   2     1     |
 | 2     1     5     | 679   8     369   | 379   4     3679  |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


8) Naked pair at r46c5 [69][69] eliminates 9s from the rest of box 5.
9) Naked pair at r5c46 [58][58] eliminates 8s from the rest of row 5.

Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 |#79    5     4     |#6789  2     689   | 1     3     67    |
 | 1     2     3     | 4     57    56    | 67    9     8     |
 |#79    6     8     |#79    3     1     | 4     5     2     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 8     4     1     | 3    +69    2     |+[69]  7     5     |
 | 6     7     29    | 58    4     58    | 239   1    [39]   |
 | 5     3     29    | 1    +69    7     |+2689  68    4     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 4     9     7     | 2     1     356   | 3568  68   [36]   |
 | 3     8     6     | 579   57    4     | 579   2     1     |
 | 2     1     5     | 679   8     369   | 379   4     3679  |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*



10) xy-wing in brackets eliminates 6 from r7c7.
11) Unique rectangle marked with '+' eliminates 69 from r6c7.
12) Unique rectangle marked with '#' eliminates 79 from r1c4.


Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79    5     4     |[68]   2     689   | 1     3     67    |
 | 1     2     3     | 4     57   [56]   | 67    9     8     |
 | 79    6     8     | 79    3     1     | 4     5     2     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 8     4     1     | 3     69    2     | 69    7     5     |
 | 6     7     29    |[58]   4     58    | 239   1     39    |
 | 5     3     29    | 1     69    7     | 28    68    4     |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 4     9     7     | 2     1     356   | 358   68    36    |
 | 3     8     6     | 579   57    4     | 579   2     1     |
 | 2     1     5     | 679   8     369   | 379   4     3679  |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


13) xy-wing in brackets eliminates 5 from r5c6.

... a few singles later and locked candidates later ...


Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------*
 | 79   5    4    | 8    2    69   | 1    3    67   |
 | 1    2    3    | 4   [57]  56   |[67]  9    8    |
 | 79   6    8    | 79   3    1    | 4    5    2    |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 8    4    1    | 3    69   2    |[69]  7    5    |
 | 6    7    29   | 5    4    8    | 239  1    39   |
 | 5    3    29   | 1    69   7    | 28   68   4    |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 4    9    7    | 2    1    35   | 358  68   36   |
 | 3    8    6    | 79  [57]  4    |[59]  2    1    |
 | 2    1    5    | 6    8    39   | 379  4    379  |
 *--------------------------------------------------*


14) The 5 bracketed cells form a short xy-type forcing chain. Both values of r2c7 force r2c5 to be 5.


Just singles after this.
Last edited by tso on Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can Not Solve - please provide guidance/tips

Postby ronk » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:36 am

jwestern wrote:Please help! Thanks......Jeff:?:

Jeff, this forum is for discussions about solving techniques. Please post requests for general help with particular puzzles on the Help with particular puzzles forum.
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Postby Carcul » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:58 am

Hi Jwestern.

Jwestern wrote:Please help! Thanks......


Dbldbl have also posted this puzzle in the "Non-Pappocom" section. Here is another solution:

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 79     5      4      | 6789   2      689    | 1      3      67     |
 | 1      2      3      | 4      57     56     | 67     9      8      |
 | 79     6      8      | 79     3      1      | 4      5      2      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 8      4      1      | 3      69     2      | 69     7      5      |
 | 6      7      29     | 589    4      589    | 2389   1      39     |
 | 5      3      29     | 1      689    7      | 2689   68     4      |
 |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 4      9      7      | 2      1      3568   | 3568   68     36     |
 | 3      8      6      | 579    579    4      | 579    2      1      |
 | 2      1      5      | 6789   789    3689   | 36789  4      3679   |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

[r5c9]{-3-[r5c7]-(Unique Rectangle: r5c3/r6c3/r5c7/r6c7/r6c8)-6-[r4c7](-9-[r8c7])=6=[r4c5]-6-[r6c5]}-3-[r7c9]-6-[r1c9]=6=[r2c7]=7=[r2c5](-7-[r6c5|r9c5]-9-[r8c5])-7-[r3c4]-9-[r8c4]

and we would have no place for candidate "9" in row 8 if r5c9=3. So, r5c9 cannot be "3" and it solve the puzzle. Check this post for an explanation about the notation used.

Regards, Carcul
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Postby jwestern » Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:58 pm

Thanks for your help. Sory for posting on the incorrect Forum Site. I did not know. It will not happen again.

Regards...........Jeff:(
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Postby QBasicMac » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:56 am

jwestern wrote:Thanks for your help. Sory for posting on the incorrect Forum Site. I did not know. It will not happen again.
(


Yeah, lot's of luck with that.

There is one forum for puzzles in newspapers which Pappocom supplied.

A different one for puzzles from Pappocom books.

DON'T GET THOSE TWO MIXED UP FOR GOD'S SAKE

And another for Non-Pappocom sources!!!

Those are the three places you go for help on particular puzzles.

Not, stupidly, to the forum entitled "Help on particular puzzles".

Mac
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Postby ronk » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:19 am

QBasicMac wrote:
jwestern wrote:Sorry for posting on the incorrect Forum Site. I did not know. It will not happen again.(

There is one forum for puzzles in newspapers which Pappocom supplied.

A different one for puzzles from Pappocom books.

DON'T GET THOSE TWO MIXED UP FOR GOD'S SAKE

And another for Non-Pappocom sources!!!

I don't believe jwestern identified the puzzle as a Pappocom puzzle. Besides, one must learn to walk before one can run.
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Postby QBasicMac » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:29 am

ronk wrote:Besides, one must learn to walk before one can run.


If you're defending the OP, then I was too subtle.

I am trying to say that to have 4 different places to post a puzzle that one is having a problem with is STUPID!

I posted a decent request for attention to this stupidity in the proper place, I think! But got no response.

PAPPOCOM IS STUPID! Maybe that is the problem. Is that clear enough?

I was being kind to the OP by pointing out that with 4 forums to choose between, it is no wonder he had a problem.

There should be one forum to which all people come to get help on a specific problem, not four to be chastised for choosing the wrong one.

Mac
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Postby ronk » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:36 am

QBasicMac wrote:There should be one forum to which all people come to get help on a specific problem, not four to be chastised for choosing the wrong one.

That isn't the case here, so you could've waited for a more appropriate opportunity to make that argument.
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Re: Can Not Solve - please provide guidance/tips

Postby suku » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:59 pm

jwestern wrote:-54-2-13-
1234---98
-68-31452
8413-2-75
67--4--1-
53-1-7--4
49721----
386--4-21
215----4-

Please help! Thanks......Jeff:?:
suku
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 02 April 2006


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