The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[999_Springs]

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4.2    XY-Wing
4.4    XYZ-Wing
4.7    Unique rectangles
4.8    Unique loops
5.0    Naked Quad
5.2    Jellyfish
5.4    Hidden Quad


So a Hidden Quad beats a Jellyfish and a Naked Quad beats an XYZ-wing. To me that does not seem logical.

What happened to ALS?

And what's the difference between Direct Pointing/Claiming and Pointing/Claiming?

[RW]

Those are the ratings as given by Sudoku Explainer. There is no definite order on technique difficulty, the author of Explainer has used his own preferences, many others may disagree with these. Explainer doesn't do ALS, it will find those eliminations as forcing chains. You can read about Direct Pointing and Pointing here.

Btw. Eioru has flipped the order of XY-wing and XYZ-wing - for some reason Explainer rates XY-wing (4.4) higher than XYZ-wing (4.2).

RW

[Eioru]

v 1.0.4

1. Change the score of Bidirectional Cycle from 7.6 to 7.0
2. Advance the 2.8, 5.6, 10.9 puzzles.

Hope every method has only one score.

[Pat]

[ 17 clues ]

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6.2.5.........4.3..........43...8....1....2........7..5..27...........81...6.....



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 6 . 2 | . 5 . | . . .
 . . . | . . 4 | . 3 .
 . . . | . . . | . . .
-------+-------+------
 4 3 . | . . 8 | . . .
 . 1 . | . . . | 2 . .
 . . . | . . . | 7 . .
-------+-------+------
 5 . . | 2 7 . | . . .
 . . . | . . . | . 8 1
 . . . | 6 . . | . . .



Sudoku Explainer --

Difficulty rating: 9.0

61 x Hidden Single
3 x Direct Hidden Pair
10 x Pointing
1 x Hidden Pair
1 x Forcing X-Chain
3 x Region Forcing Chains
1 x Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains
2 x Dynamic Region Forcing Chains

Eioru, i don't really know how to score the above puzze --

8.9 Dynamic Region Forcing Chains

-- but Sudoku Explainer rates it as 9.0
while listing "Dynamic Region Forcing Chains" as the toughest method used --


i don't expect it will break the record for 9.0,
just curious how to score it (and similarly-rated puzzles posted by you).


~ Pat

[Eioru]

About Bidirectional Cycle,
I feel it's difficulty is usually 7.0, and is not harder than Forcing Chains, whose difficulty usually is 7.0-7.2, so I score Bidirectional Cycle 7.0.

About Dynamic Contration/Region/Cell/Double Forcing Chains,
the difficulty of them are similar,
but the numbers of them are different,
Contration occurs most ( averged in many puzzles ), then Reion, Cell, and Double.
Then when a Dynamic ~ Forcing Chain is about 9.0 (8.5~9.5),
I score the fore type 8.8 8.9 9.1 9.2 for an inverse ratio to their frequencies.

[Pat]

[ 22 clues ]

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1.......9.2..6..7...3...5...8..94......6.3......21..4...9...1...6..7..8.5.......3



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 1 . . | . . . | . . 9
 . 2 . | . 6 . | . 7 .
 . . 3 | . . . | 5 . .
-------+-------+------
 . 8 . | . 9 4 | . . .
 . . . | 6 . 3 | . . .
 . . . | 2 1 . | . 4 .
-------+-------+------
 . . 9 | . . . | 1 . .
 . 6 . | . 7 . | . 8 .
 5 . . | . . . | . . 3



Sudoku Explainer Difficulty rating: 10.5

Sudoku Explainer --

Difficulty rating: 10.5

57 x Hidden Single
2 x Direct Hidden Pair
8 x Pointing
2 x Claiming
1 x Naked Pair
1 x X-Wing
2 x Hidden Pair
2 x Turbot Fish
1 x Forcing X-Chain
1 x Bidirectional Y-Cycle
5 x Forcing Chain
1 x Nishio Forcing Chains
2 x Region Forcing Chains
2 x Cell Forcing Chains
17 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains
4 x Dynamic Region Forcing Chains
2 x Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains
12 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains (+)
8 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains (+ Forcing Chains)
2 x Dynamic Region Forcing Chains (+ Forcing Chains)

[Eioru]

v1.0.5
1.Advance the 2.3, 3.2, 10.5 puzzles.
2.Add the 10.6(coloin St.Patrick 8), 11.3(JPF 04/5), no score yet.

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7..1.5..3
.9.....5.
...3.8...
4.3...7.2
.........
8.2...9.4
...7.6...
.3.....6.
1..4.9...

The 2.3 puzzle: 46 x Hidden Single 8 x Direct Hidden Pair 4 x Naked Single

[RW]

I'm not sure how valuable the information provided by this thread is. It's only an approximation of the total sum of the moves in SE, the result will change between different permutations of the puzzle, it doesn't in any way mimic the behaviour of a manual solver and the current two hardest according to this scoring system have ER 9.2 & 9.7...

But as the thread already exists, then perhaps this one should be added:

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1.......9..67...2..8....5......6..7....3.8.....427.....9....8..5.......1..2.4..3.

ER: 11,2, total score 855,5.
58 x Hidden Single 1 x Naked Single 7 x Pointing 1 x Claiming 4 x Naked Pair 2 x Hidden Pair 1 x Naked Triplet 1 x Swordfish 1 x Hidden Triplet 1 x XY-Wing 1 x Forcing X-Chain 8 x Forcing Chain 1 x Bidirectional Cycle 1 x Aligned Triplet Exclusion 3 x Nishio Forcing Chains 6 x Region Forcing Chains 7 x Cell Forcing Chains 8 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains 17 x Dynamic Region Forcing Chains 2 x Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains 2 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains (+) 1 x Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains (+ Forcing Chains) 10 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains (+ Forcing Chains) 1 x Dynamic Double Forcing Chains (+ Forcing Chains) 2 x Dynamic Region Forcing Chains (+ Forcing Chains) 12 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains (+ Multiple Forcing Chains)

RW

[Pat]

the result will change between different permutations of the puzzle

thanks, i wasn't aware of that.

the current two hardest according to this scoring system have ER 9.2 & 9.7

yes, Eioru's scoring is only relevant within each SuDoku Explainer level.

[Eioru]

v1.0.6
Advance the 1.2, 2.3, 4.0, 7.0, 9.0, 9.1, 11.2 puzzles.

Two amazing puzzles

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...2.8..7
.4.....9.
...5.6...
3.7...6..
.........
6.5...1.2
...4.5...
.1.....3.
9..7.2..4

45 x Hidden Single 1 x Direct Pointing 9 x Direct Hidden Pair 4 x Naked Single (73.9)

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.........
.4...7.5.
..8.1...9
7.....2..
..9.3...8
.5...6.3.
...3.....
.6...2.4.
..1.8...2

56 x Hidden Single 2 x Naked Single 2 x Pointing 1 x Claiming 2 x Naked Pair 1 x X-Wing 1 x Hidden Pair 3 x Swordfish 1 x Hidden Triplet 1 x Forcing X-Chain 2 x Bidirectional Cycle 12 x Forcing Chain 3 x Region Forcing Chains 9 x Dynamic Cell Forcing Chains 14 x Dynamic Contradiction Forcing Chains 31 x Dynamic Region Forcing Chains 4 x Dynamic Double Forcing Chains (746.7)

[Pat]

re: 2.3

thanks!!

your previous 2.3 (2007.Apr.16) was already quite good --
now this new one is utterly amazing

i hope you don't mind my re-posting them for 999_Springs

[Eioru]

Discuss
Is this 24-clue pattern difficult to produce?

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*...*...*     a...b...a
.*.*.*.*.     .c.d.d.c.
.........     .........
.*.*.*.*.     .d.e.e.d.
*.......*     b.......b
.*.*.*.*.     .d.e.e.d.
.........     .........
.*.*.*.*.     .c.d.d.c
*...*...*     a...b...a

Then take any 2 stars to produce puzzles.(Long time to get one)
count(combination)
2(a,a) 2(a,b) 3(a,c) 4(a,d) 3(a,e)
2(b,b) 2(b,c) 4(b,d) 2(b,e) 2(c,c)
4(c,d) 3(c,e) 5(d,d) 4(d,e) 2(e,e) = 44 kinds of puzzles

19clues
2...8...5.3.7.6.2.............9...4.1.......8.4.6...............7.3.4.6.8...5.... (2.6)
4...9...5.1.6.2.7.............8...1.9.......4.2.1.7.8.............7.....5...6...3 (6.6)

Others
7...9...5.1.5.4.3.............9.3...........7.3.4.6.2...........4.1.2.6.9...6...8 (8.4) 13xNishio
3...1...6.5.9.3.2...........9.2.....5.......4.8.7.9.5...........2.6...8.7...3...1 (7.4) 34xForcing
7...2...4.6.1.7.9...........9.6...3.4.......2.8...3.7.............8.1.6.5...4...3 with Jellyfish
6...9...5.7...3.1.............1...2.8.......3.2.3.9.4...........9.2.1.7.5...8...6 (9.1) hardest

v1.0.7
1.Correct the rating XYZ-wing : 4.2, XY-wing : 4.4
2.Advance the 3.0, 6.9, 7.1, 7.2, 7.4 puzzles.
How everyone feels these techniques between 6.0 ~ 7.0,
Aligned Pair Exclusion
Bidirectioal X-Cycles
Turbot Fish
Forcing X-Chains
Bidirectioal Y-Cycles
which should be the hardest and the easiest?

[Pat]

[ 21 clues ]

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...6.9.....1...7...2.....9.8...5...77...4...64...2...8.3.....2...5...3.....4.8...



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 . . . | 6 . 9 | . . .
 . . 1 | . . . | 7 . .
 . 2 . | . . . | . 9 .
-------+-------+------
 8 . . | . 5 . | . . 7
 7 . . | . 4 . | . . 6
 4 . . | . 2 . | . . 8
-------+-------+------
 . 3 . | . . . | . 2 .
 . . 5 | . . . | 3 . .
 . . . | 4 . 8 | . . .



Sudoku Explainer --

Difficulty rating: 2.8

55 x Hidden Single
4 x Direct Hidden Pair
1 x Naked Single
10 x Pointing
6 x Claiming

[Eioru]

v1.0.8
1. Add the 8.7 puzzle and score.
2. Advance the 2.8, 4.2, 4.5, 5.7, 6.7, 7.6, 8.2, 8.3, 8.9 puzzles.

[Eioru]

v 1.0.9
1.Advance the 2.5, 2.6, 3.6, 4.0, 4.2, 5.6, 7.3, 7.7, 8.3, 8.9, 9.0 puzzles.
2.Delete 4.8, 4.9, 6.0, 8.1 rating of puzzles until there are puzzles rated at them