Beginner Stuck

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Beginner Stuck

Postby Jagman » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:05 pm

I am new to the more advanced techniques. Can somebody please assist with this roadblock?
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Re: Beginner Stuck

Postby champagne » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:24 pm

at that point, forcing chains are the "simplest" next steps, look on "1"; "4" and a mix of "3","4","6",
may be skill players will come with something quicker and not too complex
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Re: Beginner Stuck

Postby JasonLion » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:29 pm

.2..835..589.2.3....47.52.81....2489.985..72.2....81.5..38596.29.2.3.85.8..24.9..

I see a Finned Swordfish, an X-Chain, and a 3D Medusa Coloring opportunity, but none of them really get you anywhere.

To make progress I would also use a forcing chain. The one I see is on 3, 6, and 7 so apparently a slightly different one than champagne used.
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Re: Beginner Stuck

Postby champagne » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:41 pm

meantime, I asked "skfr" to give clues.

The simplest sequence for a first assignment seems to be

show 1r1c8 not valid
show 4r2c9 not valid
show 4r8c2 not valid, then r8c9=4

but this will not be enough to go to the end without a new chain



<1r1c8> kite r1c3 r3c2 r7c2 r7c8 or the equivalent Xchain
<4r2c9> Xchain 4r2c9 -4r2c6 = 4r5c6 - 4r5c1 = 4r6c2 - 4r8c2 = 4r8c9 -4r2c9
<4r8c2> XY chain 4r8c2 - 4r7c1= 7r7c1 - 7r1c1 = 7r1c3 - 1r1c3 = 1r1c9 - 4r1c9 = 4r8c9 - 4r8c2
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Re: Beginner Stuck

Postby JC Van Hay » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:40 pm

Note :
1. there are only 3 solutions for the 3s;
2. bilocals on 3s are weakly connected in cells to bilocals on 1, 4, 5, 6, 9.

Analysis of the puzlle from 3B1 (or 3B9) :
Code: Select all
+----------------------+----------------+-----------------+
| 67     2       67(1) | 1469  8    3   | 5  1469   (146) |
| 5      8       9     | 146   2    146 | 3  1467   1467  |
| 6(3)   6-3(1)  4     | 7     169  5   | 2  169    8     |
+----------------------+----------------+-----------------+
| 1      3567    567   | 36    67   2   | 4  8      9     |
| 6(34)  9       8     | 5     16   146 | 7  2      (36)  |
| 2      3467    67    | 3469  679  8   | 1  36     5     |
+----------------------+----------------+-----------------+
| 7(4)   147     3     | 8     5    9   | 6  17(4)  2     |
| 9      1467    2     | 16    3    167 | 8  5      17(4) |
| 8      1567    1567  | 2     4    167 | 9  137    137   |
+----------------------+----------------+-----------------+
r3c2=3 -> r1c3=1; r5c1=3, r5c9=6 and r7c1=r8c9=4; r1c9={} :=> r3c1=3; stte
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Re: Beginner Stuck

Postby Jagman » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:40 pm

OK, thank you all for your quick responses. Now my next task is to work out what you all mean! This is my first posting and I am unfamiliar with the protocol and terminology. I will research from the rest of the forum to decipher your solutions, I will NOT let this puzzle beat me.

It is clear that I am going to have to learn new techniques to solve it and that was what I was looking for. I've heard of a swordfish but couldn't see how they benifitted me in this puzzle. The rest of the solutions are not clear.

Thanks again.
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Re: Beginner Stuck

Postby Leren » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:05 pm

Here is my solution, which does not require any forcing chains:

Code: Select all
*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 67    2    a167    | 1469  8     3      | 5     469-1 146    |
| 5     8     9      | 146   2     146    | 3     1467  1467   |
| 36    136   4      | 7     169   5      | 2     169   8      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 1     3567  567    | 36    67    2      | 4     8     9      |
| 346   9     8      | 5     16    146    | 7     2     36     |
| 2     3467  67     | 3469  679   8      | 1     36    5      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 47   c147   3      | 8     5     9      | 6    d147   2      |
| 9     1467  2      | 16    3     167    | 8     5     147    |
| 8     1567 b1567   | 2     4     167    | 9     137   137    |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

Skyscraper: (1) r1c3 = r9c3 - r7c2 = (1) r7c8 => - 1 r1c8

*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 67    2     167    | 1469  8     3      | 5     469   146    |
| 5     8     9      | 146   2     146    | 3     1467  1467   |
|a36    136   4      | 7     169   5      | 2     19-6  8      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 1     3567  567    | 36    67    2      | 4     8     9      |
|b346   9     8      | 5     16    146    | 7     2    c36     |
| 2     3467  67     | 3469  679   8      | 1    d36    5      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 47    147   3      | 8     5     9      | 6     147   2      |
| 9     1467  2      | 16    3     167    | 8     5     147    |
| 8     1567  1567   | 2     4     167    | 9     137   137    |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

W Wing: (6=3) r3c1 - r5c1 = r5c9 - (3=6) r6c8 => - 6 r3c8;

*---------------------------------------------------------------*
| 67    2      167    | 1469  8     3      | 5     469   146    |
| 5     8      9      | 146   2     146    | 3     1467  1467   |
| 36    136    4      | 7     169   5      | 2     19    8      |
|---------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 1     3567   567    | 36    67    2      | 4     8     9      |
|d346   9      8      | 5     16    146    | 7     2    c36     |
| 2    e34-67 a67     | 3469  679   8      | 1    b36    5      |
|---------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 47    147    3      | 8     5     9      | 6     147   2      |
| 9     1467   2      | 16    3     167    | 8     5     147    |
| 8     1567   1567   | 2     4     167    | 9     137   137    |
*---------------------------------------------------------------*

Embedded AICs Type 2: (7=6) r6c3 - (6=3) r6c8 - r5c9 = (3-4) r5c1 = (4) r6c2; => - 67 r6c2;

*--------------------------------------------------------------*
|a67    2     16-7   | 1469  8     3      | 5     469   146    |
| 5     8     9      | 146   2     146    | 3     1467  1467   |
|b36   b136   4      | 7    c169   5      | 2     19    8      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 1     3567  567    | 36   d67    2      | 4     8     9      |
| 346   9     8      | 5     16    146    | 7     2     36     |
| 2     34   f67     | 3469 e679   8      | 1     36    5      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 47    147   3      | 8     5     9      | 6     147   2      |
| 9     1467  2      | 16    3     167    | 8     5     147    |
| 8     1567  1567   | 2     4     167    | 9     137   137    |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

W Wing with transport : (7=6) r1c1 - r3c23 = r3c5 - (6=7) r4c5 - r6c5 = (7) r6c3 => - 7 r1c3;

At this point there is a locked pair (16) r1c39 and then a pointing pair of 1's r2c46, which remove some candidates.

These are very basic moves which I assume you are familiar with, so I won't describe them in detail. They get you to here.

*--------------------------------------------------------------*
| 7     2    a16     | 49    8     3      | 5     49   b16     |
| 5     8     9      | 146   2     16     | 3     467   67     |
| 3-6   136   4      | 7     69    5      | 2     19    8      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 1     3567  57-6   | 36    67    2      | 4     8     9      |
|d36    9     8      | 5     1     4      | 7     2    c36     |
| 2     4     7-6    | 369   679   8      | 1     36    5      |
|--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
| 4     17    3      | 8     5     9      | 6     17    2      |
| 9     167   2      | 16    3     167    | 8     5     4      |
| 8     1567  1567   | 2     4     167    | 9     137   137    |
*--------------------------------------------------------------*

Skyscraper : (6) r1c3 = r1c9 - r5c9 = (6) r5c1 => - 6 r4c13, r6c3; stte (Singles to the End)

I've named the moves and used Eureka notation to explain the logic. If you need any further explanation just ask and I'll try to help. This is a long post and hopefully I haven't made too many typos.

Leren
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