The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **daj95376** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:54 pm

I'm completely confused by Pat's posts and wording. In this forum, Pat posted the following puzzle. Since I don't have Sadman Software, I can't say what it can or can't do on this puzzle.

Code: Select all: ..6....8.43..1..7....2....5....9.1...2.8.7.4...7.3....2....1....9..8..34.6....5..

In the Programmers Forum, Pat posted this puzzle and PM.

Code: Select all: . . . | 3 . 8 | . . . . . 6 | . 4 . | 1 . . . 8 . | . . . | . 9 . -------+-------+------ 4 . . | . . . | . . 5 . 7 . | . . . | . 8 . 1 . . | . . . | . . 3 -------+-------+------ . 6 . | . . . | . 7 . . . 4 | . 5 . | 6 . . . . . | 7 . 3 | . . . +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ | 259 4 12579 | 3 129 8 | 257 256 267 | | 2359 2359 6 | 259 4 7 | 1 235 8 | | 235 8 12357 | 1256 12 1256 | 23457 9 2467 | +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ | 4 239 2389 | 1269 123789 1269 | 279 126 5 | | 6 7 2359 | 12459 1239 12459 | 249 8 1249 | | 1 259 2589 | 24569 2789 24569 | 2479 246 3 | +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ | 23589 6 123589 | 1249 129 1249 | 234589 7 1249 | | 7 1239 4 | 8 5 129 | 6 123 129 | | 2589 1259 12589 | 7 6 3 | 24589 1245 1249 | +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+

This is the puzzle that Pat references as until recently above. He claims that the Sadman Software

fails to find the "Block / Block interactions" (c9 6 in box 3; or equally, r1 6 in box 3)

I don't see the Block/Block Interactions he claims exists!

by **ronk** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:13 pm

daj95376 wrote:I don't see the Block/Block Interactions [edit: Pat] claims exists!

I don't either, but while Sadman solves the puzzle with singles and line/box interactions ... it doesn't solve it with singles and box/box interactions.

Without proof, I propose that the deductions of both Fig 2 and Fig 3 (below) are required to replace the functionality of Fig 1.

Code: Select all: . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . ---------+----------+---------- ---------+----------+---------- / / / | . . . | . . . * * * | . . . | . . . X X X | * * * | * * * X X X | / / / | / / / / / / | . . . | . . . * * * | . . . | . . . ---------+----------+---------- ---------+----------+---------- . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . Fig 1: b\r 1-fish r\b 1-fish . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . ---------+----------+---------- ---------+----------+---------- / / / | X X X | X X X * * * | X X X | X X X . . . | * * * | * * * . . . | / / / | / / / / / / | X X X | X X X * * * | X X X | X X X ---------+----------+---------- ---------+----------+---------- . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . Fig 2: rr\bb x-wing bb\rr x-wing . . . | . . . | . * . . . . | . . . | . / . . . . | . . . | . * . . . . | . . . | . / . . . . | . . . | . * . . . . | . . . | . / . ---------+----------+---------- ---------+----------+---------- / / / | X X X | / X / * * * | X X X | * X * . . . | * * * | . * . . . . | / / / | . / . / / / | X X X | / X / * * * | X X X | * X * ---------+----------+---------- ---------+----------+---------- . . . | . . . | . * . . . . | . . . | . / . . . . | . . . | . * . . . . | . . . | . / . . . . | . . . | . * . . . . | . . . | . / . Fig 3: rr\cb x-wing cb\rr x-wing

by **Pat** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:27 am

daj95376 wrote:In the Programmers Forum,
Pat posted this puzzle and PM
Code: Select all
. . . | 3 . 8 | . . . . . 6 | . 4 . | 1 . . . 8 . | . . . | . 9 . -------+-------+------ 4 . . | . . . | . . 5 . 7 . | . . . | . 8 . 1 . . | . . . | . . 3 -------+-------+------ . 6 . | . . . | . 7 . . . 4 | . 5 . | 6 . . . . . | 7 . 3 | . . . +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ | 259 4 12579 | 3 129 8 | 257 256 267 | | 2359 2359 6 | 259 4 7 | 1 235 8 | | 235 8 12357 | 1256 12 1256 | 23457 9 2467 | +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ | 4 239 2389 | 1269 123789 1269 | 279 126 5 | | 6 7 2359 | 12459 1239 12459 | 249 8 1249 | | 1 259 2589 | 24569 2789 24569 | 2479 246 3 | +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ | 23589 6 123589 | 1249 129 1249 | 234589 7 1249 | | 7 1239 4 | 8 5 129 | 6 123 129 | | 2589 1259 12589 | 7 6 3 | 24589 1245 1249 | +----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+

This is the puzzle that Pat references as until recently above.
He claims that the Sadman Software
fails to find the "Block / Block interactions" (c9 6 in box 3; or equally, r1 6 in box 3)

I don't see the Block/Block Interactions he claims exists!

c9 6 in box 3 --
in my terminology,
this is a line-to-box exclusion
( a fish of order 1: c9\b3 ).

in the terminology used by SadMan Software,
i had expected it would be stated as:

Block/block interaction: blocks 6 and 9 have an interaction

( SadMan Software sees these situations as fish of order 2: b69\c78 ).

my justification for this translation may be shaky,
but see #9 mentioned in my previous post.

i thank all who've been trying to resolve my confusion

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Au revoir

re(4): interactions