ATK oddity

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ATK oddity

Postby Smythe Dakota » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:14 pm

Has anyone else noticed an apparent oddity in ATK puzzle M43441? The cell r8c5 looks as though it had been pasted there, literally, with scissors and glue. That cell is a bit discolored compared to the rest of the grid, and its borders are less distinct than on other cells.

Additionally, this cell destroys the usual 180-degree rotational symmetry found in most ATK (and other) patterns.

Could it be that the original puzzle was defective (perhaps it had multiple solutions), and that adding this cell (and updating a couple of the sums to match) fixed the problem??

Bill Smythe
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Re: ATK oddity

Postby denis_berthier » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:12 am

Smythe Dakota wrote:Has anyone else noticed an apparent oddity in ATK puzzle M43441? The cell r8c5 looks as though it had been pasted there, literally, with scissors and glue. That cell is a bit discolored compared to the rest of the grid, and its borders are less distinct than on other cells.


Hi Bill,

On my Mac, I can't see any difference in colour for this cell.

Smythe Dakota wrote:Additionally, this cell destroys the usual 180-degree rotational symmetry found in most ATK (and other) patterns.
Could it be that the original puzzle was defective (perhaps it had multiple solutions), and that adding this cell (and updating a couple of the sums to match) fixed the problem??


I had solved M43442 before and, as mentioned in my post here http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/can-you-solve-this-without-trial-and-error-t30960-181.html, the two are related by sector complementation.
I hadn't noticed the lack of symmetry due to this cell - but I don't use symmetry in resolution. BTW, did you ever use symmetry? (IMO, it's there for purely aesthetic reasons.)
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Re: ATK oddity

Postby Smythe Dakota » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:40 am

Hmm, the color difference is gone now (maybe it was an optical illusion due to the difference in the borders) and the difference in the borders is gone too. ATK must have cleaned it up a bit since a day or two ago.

I never use 180-degree rotational symmetry for anything. (For that matter, I don't see how I could use it for anything.) I agree it's purely aesthetic, but lack of symmetry sticks out like a sore thumb and makes me ask questions, I guess. :)

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Re: ATK oddity

Postby kakuroatk » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:20 am

I replaced M43441 with a new more challenging, better designed medium puzzle, give it a try!
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Re: ATK oddity

Postby denis_berthier » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:02 am

kakuroatk wrote:I replaced M43441 with a new more challenging, better designed medium puzzle, give it a try!

More challenging, for sure.
The old puzzle was in W2; the new one is in gW15.

Here is KakuRules solution. Everything starts smoothly, until two hard steps (whip[9], g-whip[15]) are necessary to finish the puzzle.
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
naked-single ==> r10c8 = 9
naked-single ==> r10c9 = 7
naked-single ==> r8c10 = 3
naked-single ==> r4c8 = 4
naked-single ==> r4c6 = 5
naked-single ==> r2c4 = 1
naked-single ==> r2c3 = 3
naked-single ==> vr1c4 = 15
naked-single ==> r3c4 = 5
naked-single ==> hr8c8 = 39
naked-single ==> r8c9 = 9
naked-single ==> vr8c8 = 59
naked-single ==> r9c8 = 5
352 candidates, 1468 csp-links and 2029 links. Density = 3.28444703444703%
naked-pairs-in-verti-sector: c6{r8 r10}{n5 n7} ==> r9c6 ≠ 7, r7c6 ≠ 7, r7c6 ≠ 5
naked-pairs-in-horiz-sector: r8{c2 c6}{n5 n7} ==> r8c7 ≠ 7, r8c7 ≠ 5, r8c5 ≠ 5, r8c3 ≠ 7, r8c3 ≠ 5
biv-chain[2]: vr6c2{n589 n679} - r8c2{n5 n7} ==> r7c2 ≠ 7, r9c2 ≠ 7
biv-chain[2]: hr10c2{n1237 n1345} - r10c6{n7 n5} ==> r10c3 ≠ 5, r10c5 ≠ 5
biv-chain[2]: hr10c2{n1345 n1237} - r10c6{n5 n7} ==> r10c3 ≠ 7
whip[2]: hr7c1{n69 n78} - r7c2{n6 .} ==> r7c3 ≠ 8
whip[2]: r6c9{n8 n3} - r6c8{n3 .} ==> hr6c6 ≠ 379
biv-chain[2]: r6c8{n4 n2} - vr5c8{n14 n23} ==> r7c8 ≠ 4
biv-chain[2]: vr5c8{n14 n23} - r6c8{n4 n2} ==> r7c8 ≠ 2
whip[2]: r6c8{n4 n2} - hr6c6{n469 .} ==> r6c7 ≠ 4, r6c9 ≠ 4
whip[2]: r6c8{n2 n4} - hr6c6{n289 .} ==> r6c7 ≠ 2, r6c9 ≠ 2
naked-pairs-in-verti-sector: c9{r4 r6}{n6 n8} ==> r9c9 ≠ 8, r9c9 ≠ 6, r7c9 ≠ 8, r7c9 ≠ 6, r5c9 ≠ 6, r3c9 ≠ 8, r3c9 ≠ 6
whip[2]: r6c9{n8 n6} - hr6c6{n289 .} ==> r6c7 ≠ 8
whip[2]: r6c9{n6 n8} - hr6c6{n469 .} ==> r6c7 ≠ 6
whip[2]: hr5c8{n34 n16} - r5c9{n2 .} ==> r5c10 ≠ 1
whip[2]: hr4c1{n24 n15} - r4c2{n2 .} ==> r4c3 ≠ 5
whip[2]: vr4c4{n45 n18} - r6c4{n3 .} ==> r5c4 ≠ 8
whip[2]: vr4c4{n45 n27} - r6c4{n3 .} ==> r5c4 ≠ 7
whip[2]: vr2c2{n478 n568} - r4c2{n2 .} ==> r5c2 ≠ 5
whip[2]: vr2c2{n568 n289} - r4c2{n4 .} ==> r5c2 ≠ 2, r3c2 ≠ 2
g-whip[2]: r4c2{n4 n235} - vr2c2{n478 .} ==> r5c2 ≠ 4
whip[2]: hr5c1{n123467 n123458} - r5c2{n7 .} ==> r5c7 ≠ 8, r5c5 ≠ 8, r5c3 ≠ 8
g-whip[2]: r4c2{n4 n235} - vr2c2{n478 .} ==> r3c2 ≠ 4
naked-triplets-in-verti-sector: c3{r4 r8 r10}{n4 n2 n1} ==> r9c3 ≠ 4, r9c3 ≠ 2, r9c3 ≠ 1, r6c3 ≠ 4, r5c3 ≠ 4, r5c3 ≠ 2, r5c3 ≠ 1
whip[2]: hr5c1{n123467 n123458} - r5c3{n7 .} ==> r5c7 ≠ 5, r5c5 ≠ 5, r5c4 ≠ 5
whip[2]: vr4c4{n36 n45} - r5c4{n6 .} ==> r6c4 ≠ 4
naked-triplets-in-verti-sector: c3{r4 r8 r10}{n4 n2 n1} ==> r3c3 ≠ 4, r3c3 ≠ 2, r3c3 ≠ 1
whip[3]: hr10c2{n1237 n1345} - r10c4{n2 n1} - r10c3{n1 .} ==> r10c5 ≠ 4
whip[3]: hr10c2{n1345 n1237} - r10c4{n4 n1} - r10c3{n1 .} ==> r10c5 ≠ 2
whip[3]: hr5c1{n123458 n123467} - r5c3{n5 n6} - r5c2{n6 .} ==> r5c7 ≠ 7
whip[3]: hr5c1{n123458 n123467} - r5c3{n5 n7} - r5c2{n7 .} ==> r5c7 ≠ 6, r5c5 ≠ 6, r5c4 ≠ 6
whip[2]: vr4c4{n45 n36} - r5c4{n4 .} ==> r6c4 ≠ 3
whip[6]: r9n7{c3 c7} - r4n7{c7 c10} - r3n7{c10 c2} - vr2c2{n568 n478} - r5c2{n6 n8} - hr5c1{n123467 .} ==> r5c3 ≠ 7
biv-chain[2]: r5c3{n6 n5} - hr5c1{n123467 n123458} ==> r5c2 ≠ 6
whip[6]: r10c5{n1 n3} - r8n3{c5 c7} - r9n3{c7 c9} - r2n3{c9 c6} - r3c6{n3 n2} - r3c8{n2 .} ==> r3c5 ≠ 1
whip[7]: r8n3{c5 c7} - r9n3{c7 c9} - r2n3{c9 c6} - r5n3{c6 c4} - vr4c4{n45 n36} - r6c4{n8 n6} - hr6c2{n389 .} ==> r6c5 ≠ 3
whip[9]: r5c2{n8 n7} - hr5c1{n123458 n123467} - c3n5{r5 r6} - c3n8{r6 r9} - r9c6{n8 n9} - c2n9{r9 r7} - c3n9{r7 r3} - c3n7{r3 r7} - hr7c1{n69 .} ==> r3c2 ≠ 8
whip[2]: vr2c2{n568 n478} - r3c2{n9 .} ==> r5c2 ≠ 7
naked-single ==> r5c2 = 8
naked-single ==> hr5c1 = 123458
naked-single ==> r5c3 = 5
g-whip[15]: hr10c2{n1345 n1237} - r10c4{n4 n1} - r10c5{n1 n3} - r8n3{c5 c7} - r9n3{c7 c9} - r2n3{c9 c6} - r3n3{c6 c10} - vr2c10{n467 n2345689} - r4n7{c10 c7} - r9n7{c7 c3} - r3n7{c3 c2} - vr2c2{n568 n478} - r4c2{n5 n4} - r4c3{n4 n1} - hr4c1{n24 .} ==> r10c3 ≠ 2
whip[3]: r10c3{n1 n4} - hr10c2{n1237 n1345} - r10c4{n2 .} ==> r10c5 ≠ 1
stte
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denis_berthier
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Re: ATK oddity

Postby Mauriès Robert » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:50 pm

Hi Bill Smythe,
Who's ATK? Where do you get ATK puzzles?
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Re: ATK oddity

Postby denis_berthier » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:08 pm

Mauriès Robert wrote:Hi Bill Smythe,
Who's ATK? Where do you get ATK puzzles?
Robert

Hi Robert
http://www.atksolutions.com/games/kakuro.html
The best place for kakuro puzzles.
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