April 21, 2016

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April 21, 2016

Postby ArkieTech » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:47 pm

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |5..|.2.|...|
 |.6.|4.3|7..|
 |.39|8..|..2|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|..6|..7|
 |1..|.3.|2..|
 |...|..8|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |.4.|...|8..|
 |9..|.5.|43.|
 |3.5|...|...|
 *-----------*


Play/Print this puzzle online
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby pjb » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:14 am

Code: Select all
 5       178     1478   | 1679   2      179    | 1369   14689  134689
 28      6       128    | 4      19     3      | 7      5      189   
 47      3       9      | 8      167    5      | 16     146    2     
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 248     2589    2348   | 1259   149    6      | 1359   1489   7     
 1       5789    4678   | 579    3      79     | 2      4689   4689   
 2467    2579    23467  | 12579  1479   8      | 13569  1469   13469 
------------------------+----------------------+---------------------
 267     4       1267   | 3      1679   1279   | 8      27     5     
 9       1278    12678  |*67-1   5      127    | 4      3      16     
 3       127     5      |*67-1   8      4      | 169    27     169   
Need to dig deep here:
Pattern analysis shows no pattern of 1's include r89c4 => -1 r89c4; lclste

Phil
Last edited by pjb on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:16 am

Code: Select all
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 5      b178    b1478    | 1679    2      a179     | 1369    14689   134689  |
 | 28      6      c128     | 4      f19      3       | 7       5       189     |
 | 47      3       9       | 8       167     5       | 16      146     2       |
 *-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 248     2589    2348    | 1259   f149     6       | 1359    1489    7       |
 | 1       5789    4678    | 579     3     ag79      | 2       4689    4689    |
 | 2467    2579    23467   | 12579  f1479    8       | 13569   1469    13469   |
 *-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
 | 267     4      d1267    | 3      e1679   e127-9   | 8       27      5       |
 | 9       1278    12678   | 167     5       127     | 4       3       16      |
 | 3       127     5       | 167     8       4       | 169     27      169     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

(9=17)r15c6 - 1r1c23 = r2c3 - r7c3 = (1r7c5) - (1=479)r246c5 - (7=9)r5c6 => -9 r7c6 ; stte
                                   OR (1-9)r7c6                          =>/



Alternately, Kraken 1r7 => -9 r7c6
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby bat999 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:59 am

Code: Select all
.---------------------.-----------------------.-----------------------.
|  5     178    1478  | e1679    2       179  | 1369    14689  134689 |
|  28    6      28-1  |  4     fb19      3    | 7       5      189    |
|  47    3      9     |  8       167     5    | 16      146    2      |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
|  248   2589   2348  | d1259   c149     6    | 1359    1489   7      |
|  1     5789   4678  | d579     3      d79   | 2       4689   4689   |
|  2467  2579   23467 | d12579  c1479    8    | 13569   1469   13469  |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
| a267   4     a1267  |  3      b679-1   1279 | 8      a27     5      |
|  9     1278   12678 | e167     5       127  | 4       3      16     |
|  3     127    5     | e167     8       4    | 169     27     169    |
'---------------------'-----------------------'-----------------------'
(1=67)r7c138 - (67=19)r27c5 - (19=7)r46c5 - (7=1)r46c4,r5c46 - (1=9)r189c4 - (9=1)r2c5 => -1 r2c3,r7c5; lclste
8-)
8-)
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby JC Van Hay » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:34 pm

Code: Select all
+----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------+
| 5     78(1)   1478   | 1679   2       79(1)  | 1369   14689  134689 |
| 28    6       128    | 4      19      3      | 7      5      189    |
| 47    3       9      | 8      167     5      | 16     146    2      |
+----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------+
| 248   2589    2348   | 1259   149     6      | 1359   1489   7      |
| 1     5789    4678   | 579    3       79     | 2      4689   4689   |
| 2467  2579    23467  | 12579  1479    8      | 13569  1469   13469  |
+----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------+
| 267   4       267(1) | 3      679(1)  279(1) | 8      27     5      |
| 9     278(1)  12678  | 67-1   5       27(1)  | 4      3      16     |
| 3     27(1)   5      | 67-1   8       4      | 169    27     169    |
+----------------------+-----------------------+----------------------+
X-Chain : {1R7C26} -> -1r89c4; lclste
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sun May 01, 2016 6:12 pm

bat999 wrote:
Code: Select all
.---------------------.-----------------------.-----------------------.
|  5     178    1478  | e1679    2       179  | 1369    14689  134689 |
|  28    6      28-1  |  4     fb19      3    | 7       5      189    |
|  47    3      9     |  8       167     5    | 16      146    2      |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
|  248   2589   2348  | d1259   c149     6    | 1359    1489   7      |
|  1     5789   4678  | d579     3      d79   | 2       4689   4689   |
|  2467  2579   23467 | d12579  c1479    8    | 13569   1469   13469  |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
| a267   4     a1267  |  3      b679-1   1279 | 8      a27     5      |
|  9     1278   12678 | e167     5       127  | 4       3      16     |
|  3     127    5     | e167     8       4    | 169     27     169    |
'---------------------'-----------------------'-----------------------'
(1=67)r7c138 - (67=19)r27c5 - (19=7)r46c5 - (7=1)r46c4,r5c46 - (1=9)r189c4 - (9=1)r2c5 => -1 r2c3,r7c5; lclste
8-)

Hi
I used to think that an ALS consisted of N cells in the same house with N+1 candidates.
Eliminate the 1 candidate from all of the N cells so that the Almost Locked Set collapses to a Locked Set.

Like it says here ---> http://hodoku.sourceforge.net/en/tech_als.php#in1
"An Almost Locked Set is a group of unsolved cells within one house, that would be a Locked Set, if only one candidate was missing.
More formally: A group of N cells with N+1 candidates"

But now I think that an ALS can consist of N cells in the same house with N+n candidates.
Eliminate the n candidates from all of the N cells so that the Almost Locked Set collapses to a Locked Set.

In the above solution...
(1=67)r7c138 - (67=19)r27c5 - (19=7)r46c5 - (7=1)r46c4,r5c46 - (1=9)r189c4 - (9=1)r2c5 => -1 r2c3,r7c5; lclste
Here r27c5 is an example of such an N+n ALS, where N is 2 and n is 2. That's 2 cells (r27c5) with 4 candidates (1679).
Eliminate both the 6 and the 7 from r27c5 to leave the Locked Set 19 in r27c5.

Perhaps the term "ALS" is reserved for only the N+1 case.
The N+n cases do the same job (collapse an ALS to a LS), but maybe we're not supposed to use the term here.
8-)
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby JasonLion » Sun May 01, 2016 6:48 pm

N cells with N+2 candidates are frequently called AALS or occasionally Almost ALS. I have also seen that extended to allow AAALS, AAAALS, etc.; though far less often.

I am not aware of any names having been proposed for the generalized case: N cells with N+W candidates. I suppose you could call it a Partially Locked Set if nothing better presents it's self. Using ALS for the name of the general class (N+W) would lead to confusion, as the single extra candidate usage is already very common.
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby Sudtyro2 » Sun May 01, 2016 7:30 pm

bat999 wrote:
Code: Select all
.---------------------.-----------------------.-----------------------.
|  5     178    1478  | e1679    2       179  | 1369    14689  134689 |
|  28    6      28-1  |  4     fb19      3    | 7       5      189    |
|  47    3      9     |  8       167     5    | 16      146    2      |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
|  248   2589   2348  | d1259   c149     6    | 1359    1489   7      |
|  1     5789   4678  | d579     3      d79   | 2       4689   4689   |
|  2467  2579   23467 | d12579  c1479    8    | 13569   1469   13469  |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
| a267   4     a1267  |  3      b679-1   1279 | 8      a27     5      |
|  9     1278   12678 | e167     5       127  | 4       3      16     |
|  3     127    5     | e167     8       4    | 169     27     169    |
'---------------------'-----------------------'-----------------------'
(1=67)r7c138 - (67=19)r27c5 - (19=7)r46c5 - (7=1)r46c4,r5c46 - (1=9)r189c4 - (9=1)r2c5 => -1 r2c3,r7c5; lclste
8-)

I think the problem (at least for me) is the use of abbreviated Eureka notation. Your first node is an ALS, and your second two nodes are actually AALS, meaning n+2 digits in n cells. To make this clearer and to show the actual linking I would rewrite your first three nodes, say, as:

(1=267)r7c138 - (6|7=19)r27c5 - (1|9=47)r46c5 - …

where “|” signifies a logical XOR operator. The other grouped digits are logically AND'd. The linking between AND'd and OR'd digits is now made more apparent.

Hope this helps...

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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby bat999 » Sun May 01, 2016 8:27 pm

JasonLion wrote:...N cells with N+2 candidates are frequently called AALS or occasionally Almost ALS...
I didn't know that, if I need to explain a situation in words then AALS etc. is cool. ;)

JasonLion wrote:...Using ALS for the name of the general class (N+W) would lead to confusion...
I agree. :)

Sudtyro2 wrote:...Hope this helps...
No, I don't have a problem with the Eureka notation. :?
8-)
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby bat999 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:12 am

Sudtyro2 wrote:Hope this helps...
Yes, I agree now using the knowledge from May 29 thread. :D

Code: Select all
.---------------------.-----------------------.-----------------------.
|  5     178    1478  | e1679    2       179  | 1369    14689  134689 |
|  28    6      28-1  |  4     fb19      3    | 7       5      189    |
|  47    3      9     |  8       167     5    | 16      146    2      |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
|  248   2589   2348  | d1259   c149     6    | 1359    1489   7      |
|  1     5789   4678  | d579     3      d79   | 2       4689   4689   |
|  2467  2579   23467 | d12579  c1479    8    | 13569   1469   13469  |
:---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
| a267   4     a1267  |  3      b679-1   1279 | 8      a27     5      |
|  9     1278   12678 | e167     5       127  | 4       3      16     |
|  3     127    5     | e167     8       4    | 169     27     169    |
'---------------------'-----------------------'-----------------------'
(1=67)r7c138 - (6|7=19)r27c5 - (1|9=7)r46c5 - (7=1)r46c4,r5c46 - (1=9)r189c4 - (9=1)r2c5 => -1 r2c3,r7c5; lclste
8-)
8-)
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Re: April 21, 2016

Postby SteveG48 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:37 pm

Sudtyro2 wrote:I think the problem (at least for me) is the use of abbreviated Eureka notation.


Yes. I was one of the first to jump on board with the use of abbreviated notation. After discussions in which several forum members objected to the abbreviated notation, I came to agree. Now I avoid it, and I wish the rest of us would do the same.
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