## another two player game

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

### another two player game

ab wrote:I'm wondering if the player playing first has too much of an advantage? It depends how easy it is to take the lead from him. A rule change that would get around this is as follows:

First lets create some terminology. If you place the first number in a group of symmetric cells (whatever the symmetry you're using) we'll say you're starting an orbit. An alternative rule could be that each player can start one orbit. Then on any turn you can play in either of the two orbits, but you can only start a new orbit when the orbit you started has been completed. That way you can still sometimes have control over where your opponent plays, but the power does not lie solely with one player.

Ok we should try this. The notation should include the played cell - because I suppose the forced cells that come after it are not involved in the symmetry rules. Do you agree?

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1      ....?2. etc...`

BTW For the records, the rules for this 2-player game have been pointed out in this topic:
http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?t=3287&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I started a 2nd topic in order to keep some overview.
Last edited by evert on Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

### Re: another two player game

evert wrote:
ab wrote:I'm wondering if the player playing first has too much of an advantage? It depends how easy it is to take the lead from him. A rule change that would get around this is as follows:

First lets create some terminology. If you place the first number in a group of symmetric cells (whatever the symmetry you're using) we'll say you're starting an orbit. An alternative rule could be that each player can start one orbit. Then on any turn you can play in either of the two orbits, but you can only start a new orbit when the orbit you started has been completed. That way you can still sometimes have control over where your opponent plays, but the power does not lie solely with one player.

Ok we should try this. The notation should include the played cell - because I suppose the forced cells that come after it are not involved in the symmetry rules. Do you agree?

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1      R4C3 62. etc...`

Shall we try using a different symmetry?
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1      R4C3 62. R6C7 2`

Does that symmetry mean that my orbit consisted of R7C6, R6C7,R4C3 and R3C4?
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

evert wrote:
Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1      R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 6`

Does that symmetry mean that my orbit consisted of R7C6, R6C7,R4C3 and R3C4?

That's right
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4`

I'm caught in my orbit because I'm not allowed to start a 2nd one.
You're about to profit from the 6s.

I'm looking for some kind of strategy here.
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

evert wrote:
Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . 6 . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 6`

I'm caught in my orbit because I'm not allowed to start a 2nd one.
You're about to profit from the 6s.

I'm looking for some kind of strategy here.

I don't gain a lot really, 'cos you're free to play anywhere now and can make another 6 if you want.
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . . || . . . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . . . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6`

The sixes are indeed popular
Should there be a rule in order to maintain a higher variety of numbers in the early stage of the game?

Please mention if you actually wanted a higher frequency of moves.
Shortly I moved house and it's still chaotic.
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

evert wrote:
Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . . || . . . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+| . . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 8`

The sixes are indeed popular
Should there be a rule in order to maintain a higher variety of numbers in the early stage of the game?

Please mention if you actually wanted a higher frequency of moves.
Shortly I moved house and it's still chaotic.

post when you wish. moving house is stressful, I'm sure you have other things on your mind! Also I've been glued to the superior puzzle thread started by Tarek. It's pretty cool.
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . . || . . . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+|-7 . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | . . . || . . . | . . . | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 85. R4C1 7`
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . . || . 6 . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+|-7 . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | 6 . . || 6 . . | . . . | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 85. R4C1 7 R8C1 6`
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+| . . . |-3 . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . . || . 6 . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+|-7 . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | 6 . . || 6 . . | . . . | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 85. R4C1 7 R8C1 66. R1C4 3`
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+ | . . . |-3 . . | . 6 . | | . . . |-6 . . | . . 9 | | . 6 . |-4 . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+ |-7 . 6 | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . 6 . | . . . | | . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . .-1 | 6 . . | | 6 . . | . . . | . . . | | . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+ 1. R7C6 1 R4C3 6 2. R6C7 2 R5C5 6 3. R3C4 4 R1C8 6 4. R9C6 6 R9C2 8 5. R4C1 7 R8C1 6 6. R1C4 3 R2C9 9`
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+|-5 . . |-3 . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . 9 || . 6 . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+|-7 . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . . . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | 6 . . || 6 . . | . . . | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 85. R4C1 7 R8C1 66. R1C4 3 R2C9 97. R1C1 5`
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+|-5 . . |-3 . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . 9 || . 6 . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+|-7 . 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6 . | . . . || . . . | . 3 . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | 6 . . || 6 . . | . . 3 | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 85. R4C1 7 R8C1 66. R1C4 3 R2C9 97. R1C1 5 R6C5 3`
ab

Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Code: Select all
`+-------+-------+-------+|-5 . . |-3 . . | . 6 . || . . . |-6 . . | . . 9 || . 6 . |-4 . . | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+|-7-2 6 | . . . | . . . || . . . | . 6-2 | . . . || . . . | . 3 . |-2 . 6 |+-------+-------+-------+| . . . | . .-1 | 6 . . || 6 . . | . . 3 | . . . || . 8 . | . .-6 | . . . |+-------+-------+-------+1. R7C6 1 R4C3 62. R6C7 2 R5C5 63. R3C4 4 R1C8 64. R9C6 6 R9C2 85. R4C1 7 R8C1 66. R1C4 3 R2C9 97. R1C1 5 R6C5 38. R5C6 2`
evert

Posts: 186
Joined: 26 August 2005

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