An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

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An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby eleven » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:25 pm

Code: Select all
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | 1 . . | . . 6 | . . . |
 | 4 . . | . . . | . 2 . |
 | . . . | . 3 . | 5 . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | 9 . . | 8 1 . |
 | . 6 . | . . . | . . . |
 | . . 4 | . . . | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . 9 | . . . | . . 8 |
 | . . . | . 2 4 | 9 . . |
 | . . 2 | . . 1 | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+

Harder low clue puzzles often can be solved with coloring.
I wonder, if you have a name for the fish.
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby Cenoman » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:34 pm

OK for coloring, but don't ask me a fish name...
Code: Select all
 +-------------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
 |  1       2       35     |  4      57   6      |  37   8      9     |
 |  4       35      6      |  57     8    9      |  1    2      37    |
 |  789     789     78     |  1      3    2      |  5    6      4     |
 +-------------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
 |  2       357     357    |  9      4   z357    |  8    1      6     |
 | a35789*  6       1      |  2      7-5 z3578   |  4   C3579 Ca357*  |
 | A35789   35789   4      |  6      1   z3578   |  37  B3579   2     |
 +-------------------------+---------------------+--------------------+
 | x357     1       9      |  357    6   y57     |  2    4      8     |
 |  6       3578    3578   |  3578   2    4      |  9    357    1     |
 | a3578*   4       2      |  3578   9    1      |  6    357   a357*  |
 +-------------------------+---------------------+--------------------+

Almost-almost X-wing
XW(5)r59c19
(5)r6c1-r6c8=(5)r5c89
(5)r7c1-r7c6=(5)r456c6
=>-5r5c5; ste
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby ArkieTech » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:00 pm

Code: Select all
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | 1      2      35     | 4      57     6      | 37     8      9      |
 | 4      35     6      | 57     8      9      | 1      2      37     |
 | 789    789    78     | 1      3      2      | 5      6      4      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 | 2      357    357    | 9      4     a357    | 8      1      6      |
 |*35789  6      1      | 2      7-5   *3578   | 4     *3579  *357    |
 |*35789  35789  4      | 6      1     *3578   | 37    *3579   2      |
 *----------------------+----------------------+----------------------|
 |*357    1      9      | 357    6     *57     | 2      4      8      |
 | 6      3578   3578   | 3578   2      4      | 9      357    1      |
 |*3578   4      2      | 3578   9      1      | 6      357   *357    |
 *--------------------------------------------------------------------*
[5r4c6=5c169b6r5679]-r5c5; ste
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby blue » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:06 pm

Code: Select all
+----------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 1        2      35   | 4     57   6      | 37  8       9     |
| 4        35     6    | 57    8    9      | 1   2       37    |
| 789      789    78   | 1     3    2      | 5   6       4     |
+----------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 2        357    357  | 9     4    37(5)  | 8   1       6     |
| 3789(5)  6      1    | 2     7-5  378(5) | 4   379(5)  37(5) |
| 3789(5)  35789  4    | 6     1    378(5) | 37  379(5)  2     |
+----------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
| 37(5)    1      9    | 357   6    7(5)   | 2   4       8     |
| 6        3578   3578 | 3578  2    4      | 9   357     1     |
| 378(5)   4      2    | 3578  9    1      | 6   357     37(5) |
+----------------------+-------------------+-------------------+

[ Finned Franken Jellyfish: <5>c169b6\r5679 with fin at r4c6 and endofin at r5c9 ] => -5r5c5; stte
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby blue » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:09 pm

Code: Select all
+-----------------------+---------------------+------------------+
| 1      2       3(5)   | 4       7(5)  6     | 37  8      9     |
| 4      3(5)    6      | 7(5)    8     9     | 1   2      37    |
| 789    789     78     | 1       3     2     | 5   6      4     |
+-----------------------+---------------------+------------------+
| 2      37(5)   37(5)  | 9       4     37(5) | 8   1      6     |
| 35789  6       1      | 2       7-5   3578  | 4   3579   37(5) |
| 35789  35789   4      | 6       1     3578  | 37  3579   2     |
+-----------------------+---------------------+------------------+
| 357    1       9      | 357     6     57    | 2   4      8     |
| 6      378(5)  378(5) | 378(5)  2     4     | 9   37(5)  1     |
| 3578   4       2      | 3578    9     1     | 6   357    37(5) |
+-----------------------+---------------------+------------------+

I like this one too.
If the fins are false, it reduces (through singles) to a hidden column single at r5c9.

[ Sashimi Finned Mutant Starfish: <5>r1248c9\c234r5b9 with fins at r1c5,r4c6 ] => -5r5c5; stte
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby eleven » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:34 pm

Great.
I knew, that fish science is well covered.
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby SpAce » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:45 am

Not a big fan of fins and complex UFG names, so here's a couple of alternate fish views.

Code: Select all
.----------------------.---------------------.-----------------.
|  1       2      35   | 4     57    6       | 37  8      9    |
|  4       35     6    | 57    8     9       | 1   2      37   |
|  789     789    78   | 1     3     2       | 5   6      4    |
:----------------------+---------------------+-----------------:
|  2      d357*  d357* | 9     4   ac3[5]7** | 8   1      6    |
| e35789*  6      1    | 2    b57*  b3578*   | 4   3579  c357* |
| e35789*  35789  4    | 6     1    a3[5]78* | 37  3579   2    |
:----------------------+---------------------+-----------------:
| f3(5)7*  1      9    | 357   6     7-5     | 2   4      8    |
|  6       3578   3578 | 3578  2     4       | 9   357    1    |
| e3578*   4      2    | 3578  9     1       | 6   357   d357* |
'----------------------'---------------------'-----------------'

Mutant 4x6-ObiFish: (5)R4C19B5\r59b4[r7c66] => -5 r7c6; stte

as a chain: Show
(5)r46c6 = r5c56 - r4c6|r5r9 = r4c23&r9c9 - r569c1 = (5)r7c1 => -5 r7c6; stte

If one prefers it without the duplicate sector (due to the endofin in UFG terms), Obi's arithmetic can take care of that:

Code: Select all
r4c19b5   \ r579c66b4      +c45
r4c1459b5 \ r579c4566b4     c456 -> b258
r4c1459b5 \ r579c6b2458    -b5
r4c1459   \ r579c6b248

=>

Code: Select all
.---------------------.------------------.----------------.
| 1       2      35   | 4      57*  6    | 37  8     9    |
| 4       35     6    | 57*    8    9    | 1   2     37   |
| 789     789    78   | 1      3    2    | 5   6     4    |
:---------------------+------------------+----------------:
| 2       357*   357* | 9      4    357* | 8   1     6    |
| 35789*  6      1    | 2      57*  3578 | 4   3579  357* |
| 35789*  35789  4    | 6      1    3578 | 37  3579  2    |
:---------------------+------------------+----------------:
| 357*    1      9    | 357*   6    7-5  | 2   4     8    |
| 6       3578   3578 | 3578*  2    4    | 9   357   1    |
| 3578*   4      2    | 3578*  9    1    | 6   357   357* |
'---------------------'------------------'----------------'

Mutant 5x7-ObiFish: (5)R4C1459\r59b24[r7c6b8] => -5 r7c6; stte

--

Another fish:

Code: Select all
.----------------------.------------------------.-------------------.
|  1       2      35   | 4     57     6         | 37  8      9      |
|  4       35     6    | 57    8      9         | 1   2      37     |
|  789     789    78   | 1     3      2         | 5   6      4      |
:----------------------+------------------------+-------------------:
|  2      b357*  b357* | 9     4    af3([5])7** | 8   1      6      |
| c35789*  6      1    | 2     7-5   f3(5)78*   | 4   3579  f3(5)7* |
| c35789*  35789  4    | 6     1     f3(5)78*   | 37  3579   2      |
:----------------------+------------------------+-------------------:
| d357*    1      9    | 357   6     e57*       | 2   4      8      |
|  6       3578   3578 | 3578  2      4         | 9   357    1      |
| d3578*   4      2    | 3578  9      1         | 6   357   e357*   |
'----------------------'------------------------'-------------------'

Mutant 4x6-ObiFish: (5)R4C169\r79b4[r5b55] => -5 r5c5

as a chain: Show
(5)r4c6 = r4c23 - r56c1 = r79c1 - r7c6&r9c9 = (5)r456c6|r5c9 => -5 r5c5; stte

Similarly transformed with Obi's arithmagic:

Code: Select all
r4c169     \ r579b455      +c45
r4c14569   \ r579c45b455    c456 -> b258
r4c19b258  \ r579c45b455   -b5
r4c19b28   \ r579c45b45

=>

Code: Select all
.---------------------.------------------.----------------.
| 1       2      35   | 4      57*  6    | 37  8     9    |
| 4       35     6    | 57*    8    9    | 1   2     37   |
| 789     789    78   | 1      3    2    | 5   6     4    |
:---------------------+------------------+----------------:
| 2       357*   357* | 9      4    357* | 8   1     6    |
| 35789*  6      1    | 2      7-5  3578 | 4   3579  357* |
| 35789*  35789  4    | 6      1    3578 | 37  3579  2    |
:---------------------+------------------+----------------:
| 357*    1      9    | 357*   6    57*  | 2   4     8    |
| 6       3578   3578 | 3578*  2    4    | 9   357   1    |
| 3578*   4      2    | 3578*  9    1    | 6   357   357* |
'---------------------'------------------'----------------'

Mutant 5x7-ObiFish: (5)R4C19B28\r79c4b4[r5c5b5] => -5 r5c5

These are of course trivial to translate into UFG as well, if one prefers that sort of complexity.
-SpAce-: Show
Code: Select all
   *             |    |               |    |    *
        *        |=()=|    /  _  \    |=()=|               *
            *    |    |   |-=( )=-|   |    |      *
     *                     \  ¯  /                   *   

"If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi."
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Re: An 18 clue from Mathemagic's sample list 2

Postby SpAce » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:24 am

Hi Cenoman and Dan,

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes...

Cenoman wrote:XW(5)r59c19

Have you considered using the fish notation with the base and cover sets separated? It would make it much easier to see how the fish works, as well as the links in the chain. The above notation doesn't give any indication if it's a row-based or a column-based X-Wing. I might wrongly assume it's row-based if I didn't look at the grid or read the rest of the chain. On the other hand, the correct interpretation is obvious if you write it like this:

(5)c19\r59

or

<5>c19\r59 (blue's style)

(5)C19\r59 (my style)

Now it's clear that any eliminations (or other weak linking) happen in the covering rows. It doesn't even need the XW-prefix (though it doesn't hurt) because it's obviously a basic X-Wing (cc\rr).

Of course, X-Wings are trivial to see anyway, but something like this gets almost impossible to decipher without the fish notation:

ArkieTech wrote:[5r4c6=5c169b6r5679]-r5c5

The ordering of the base and cover sets is actually in the UFG style, but it's still extremely hard to read without the '\'. However, simply adding the '\' would actually make it slightly incorrect, as this strong link is not strictly speaking true (or complete):

(5)c169b6\r5679 = (5)r4c6 => -5 r5c5

The reason is that the fish includes an endofin, because r5c9 belongs to two base sets: c9 and b6. If that endofin is true, the fish isn't -- just like if the exofin r4c6 is true. (The problem would be more obvious if the endofin didn't see the elimination directly. Here it's kind of hidden, but it's there.) So, that case must be covered as well:

(5)c169b6\r5679 = (5)r4c6|r5c9 => -5 r5c5

...which is the same as this:

blue wrote:[ Finned Franken Jellyfish: <5>c169b6\r5679 with fin at r4c6 and endofin at r5c9 ] => -5r5c5

Or as an ObiFish:

4x6-ObiFish: (5)C169B6\r679[r55b5] => -5 r5c5

Again, if one wants to get rid of the endofin / duplicate sector, Obi's arithmagic works:

obimagic: Show
Code: Select all
c169b6     \ r55679b5     +r4
r4c169b6   \ r455679b5     r456 -> b456
r4c169b6   \ r579b4556    -b6
r4c169     \ r579b455     +c45
r4c14569   \ r579c45b455   c456 -> b258
r4c19b258  \ r579c45b455  -b5
r4c19b28   \ r579c45b45

=>

Mutant 5x7-ObiFish: (5)R4C19B28\r79c4b4[r5c5b5] => -5 r5c5

(which happens to be the same as the translation for my own second fish in the previous post, even though the starting fish is different -- in other words, they're equivalent)

aka:

Finned Mutant Squirmbag (5)r4c19b28\r579c4b4 f:r1c5,r4c6 => -5 r5c5
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