The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **Eioru** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:43 am

Rule :
(1) Puzzles only have Hidden Single and Direct Hidden Pair
(2) Puzzles have 10+ Direct Hidden Pair
(3) Minimal
(4) Not isomorphic to any previous puzzle

#Number / Puzzle / Number of Direct Hidden Pair / Clues
#1 .12......3.....45.6.....78.....98......132......45.....86.....3.74.....6......92. 17 23

by **TTHsieh** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:57 pm

Hidden Single/Direct Hidden Pair wrote:012000000300000450600000780000054000000132000000690000086000003074000006000000910, 42/16
012000000300000450600000780000058000000132000000690000086000003074000006000000910, 43/15
012000000300000450600000780000054000000231000000690000086000003074000006000000920, 43/15

TTHsieh

by **tarek** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:30 pm

what is a direct hidden pair ?

tarek

by **TTHsieh** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:47 pm

An example for Direct Hidden Pair wrote:
Code: Select all
. x o | . . . | . . . . x o | . . . | . . . . x x | . . . | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . . . 1 . . | . . . | . . . 2 . . | . . . | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . .

r1c3 = r2c3 = {1,2}

r1c3 and r2c3 are called Direct Hidden Pair

TTHsieh

by **tarek** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:49 pm

why not this ?

An example for Direct Hidden Pair wrote:
Code: Select all
. x o | . . . | . . 5 . x o | . . . | . . . . x x | . . 5 | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . . . 1 . . | . . . | . . . 2 . . | . . . | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . .

r1c3 = r2c3 = {1,2}

r1c3 and r2c3 are called Direct Hidden Pair
because it allows a 5 in r2c1

tarek

by **tarek** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:14 am

maybe this would pass if I understood it correctly

Code: Select all: . . . | 4 5 3 | . . . . . 8 | . . . | 5 . . . 7 . | . . . | . 9 . -------+-------+------ 6 . . | 7 . . | . . 4 3 . . | . . . | . . 9 4 . . | . . 1 | . . 2 -------+-------+------ . 4 . | . . . | . 7 . . . 2 | . . . | 3 . . . . . | 6 8 5 | . . .

Are we talking about Batch steps/shortest path ??? :!:

tarek

by **TTHsieh** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:50 am

posted puzzles wrote:012000000300000450600000780000098000000132000000450000086000003074000006000000920 #1, Eioru
012000000300000450600000780000054000000132000000690000086000003074000006000000910 #2, TTHsieh
012000000300000450600000780000058000000132000000690000086000003074000006000000910 #3, TTHsieh
012000000300000450600000780000054000000231000000690000086000003074000006000000920 #4, TTHsieh
000453000008000500070000090600700004300000009400001002040000070002000300000685000 #5, tarek

SE report wrote:
Analyzing Sudoku #1
41 Hidden Single
17 Direct Hidden Pair
Hardest technique: Direct Hidden Pair
Difficulty: 2.0

Analyzing Sudoku #2
42 Hidden Single
16 Direct Hidden Pair
Hardest technique: Direct Hidden Pair
Difficulty: 2.0

Analyzing Sudoku #3
43 Hidden Single
15 Direct Hidden Pair
Hardest technique: Direct Hidden Pair
Difficulty: 2.0

Analyzing Sudoku #4
43 Hidden Single
15 Direct Hidden Pair
Hardest technique: Direct Hidden Pair
Difficulty: 2.0

Analyzing Sudoku #5
50 Hidden Single
1 Direct Pointing
8 Direct Hidden Pair
Hardest technique: Direct Hidden Pair
Difficulty: 2.0

tarek's puzzle is not identified.

TTHsieh

by **Eioru** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:44 am

tarek wrote:why not this ?
An example for Direct Hidden Pair wrote:
Code: Select all
. x o | . . . | . . 5 . x o | . . . | . . . . x x | . . 5 | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . . . 1 . . | . . . | . . . 2 . . | . . . | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . .

r1c3 = r2c3 = {1,2}

r1c3 and r2c3 are called Direct Hidden Pair
because it allows a 5 in r2c1

tarek

Yes, this is a Direct Hidden Pair

#Number, Puzzle, Number of Direct Hidden Pair, Clues, Author
#1 012000000300000450600000780000098000000132000000450000086000003074000006000000920, 17, 23, Eioru
#2 012000000300000450600000780000054000000132000000690000086000003074000006000000910, 16, 23, TTHsieh
#3 012000000300000450600000780000058000000132000000690000086000003074000006000000910, 15, 23, TTHsieh
#4 012000000300000450600000780000054000000231000000690000086000003074000006000000920, 15, 23, TTHsieh

Sorry for tarek's #5 with 1 Direct Pointing more.

by **TTHsieh** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:09 am

Eioru wrote:Sorry for tarek's #5 with 1 Direct Pointing more.

Code: Select all: . . . | 1 2 3 | . . . . . 4 | . . . | 5 . . . 6 . | . . . | . 1 . - - - + - - - + - - - 7 . . | 6 . . | . . 2 8 . . | . . . | . . 1 3 . . | . . 1 | . . 8 - - - + - - - + - - - . 9 . | . . . | . 4 . . . 8 | . . . | 7 . . . . . | 7 4 5 | . . . 000123000004000500060000010700600002800000001300001008090000040008000700000745000

SE report wrote:
49 Hidden Single
10 Direct Hidden Pair
Hardest technique: Direct Hidden Pair
Difficulty: 2.0

TTHsieh

by **tarek** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:18 am

No one said that the puzzles are electronically checked by SE...

What is direct pointing NOW, should i expect something else to emegre between the hidden single & that direct hidden pair.

Could the thread name change to "A collection of direct hidden pairs according to sudoku explainer"

tarek

by **Pat** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:51 am

tarek wrote:No one said that the puzzles are electronically checked by SE...

What is direct pointing ?

should i expect something else to emegre between the hidden single & that direct hidden pair ?
Could the thread name change to "A collection of direct hidden pairs according to sudoku explainer"

for box-line interactions ( which he calls Pointing and Claiming ),
he also has a "Direct" version --

Direct Pointing

Direct Claiming

Nicolas Juillerat [ Sudoku Explainer ] wrote:How does the Sudoku Explainer rate the difficulty of a Sudoku?

1.0: Last value in unit = Last cell in unit
1.2: Hidden Single in box
1.5: Hidden Single in row or column
1.7: Direct Pointing
1.9: Direct Claiming
2.0: Direct Hidden Pair
2.3: Naked Single
etc

by **ronk** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:57 pm

A direct hidden pair apparently combines two moves ...

a hidden pair, and
a hidden single (due to this hidden pair)

... to make a placement, but without removing the extra candidates in the cells of the hidden pair.

Having a separate name for this "technique" might be appropriate because without pencilmarks it's what a manual solver does, but a 2.0 difficulty rating for a direct hidden pair and 3.4 rating for the hidden pair alone makes no sense to me.

by **Eioru** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:22 pm

Puzzle / Number of Direct Hidden Pair / clues
924....38......9.2......51....91.......4.8.......67...1.8.....573......44.9...32. , 10, 25
.86...3........9.77......14...93.......6.2.......48.....2.....8.65.....2.39...65. , 13, 23
.86...3.5......96.7......1....93.......6.2.......48.....2.....8.65.....2.39...65. , 13, 23

last two have same answer.

by **Pat** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:40 pm

Nicolas Juillerat wrote:Direct Intersections

Direct Pointing and Direct Claiming are special cases of the more general techniques Pointing and Claiming -- the possible positions of a value in a region exclude some possible positions in another region and reveal a Hidden Single in that region. ( It is not necessary to write down the candidates in the empty cells. )

Direct Hidden Pair

Direct Hidden Pair is a special case of the more general Hidden Pair technique -- the Hidden Pair immediately reveals a Hidden Single in the same region. ( Direct Hidden Pairs, unlike Hidden Pairs in general, can be found without writing down the candidates in the empty cells. )

by **tarek** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:03 pm

hmmmm...

Then the best thing for this thread is to check a batch of probable puzzles on the SE prior to submitting them...

That list of puzzle are puzzle that solve with hidden singles + hidden pairs only..... the puzzles here should be a subset of that.

tarek

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

A collection of direct hidden pairs according to SE

A collection of direct hidden pairs according to SE